The Origin of Fear

by purplesofa 53 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  frankiespeakin

  Would you compare it to being humble?

  No, I don't know how to compare it. There are many different types of ego death(IMO). Sometimes you can remember what it was like very well, and sometimes I can't remember what it was like until I experience it again or am comming close to experiencing it, and I feel like "Oh I remember this. Sometimes you whole world gets thrown into a tails spin, right and wrong mean nothing, it is like you get out of all the programming and observe from a different perspective that is all together different than your common perspective. Body is gone, and sometimes you become the tree, the sand, the bed, the vision, you seem to be gone or have left the body. I think there are many variations, some i can't even recall no matter how I try, which is why I don't waste time trying to.

  As far as comparing or trying compare it to something else, that would be hard to do.
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  JamesThomas

  Narkissos:

  It is quite ironic that the essence of this stuff is found in most religious traditions, including Christianity (as the Christian mystics did not miss) yet it is lost under a mountain of dogmatic beliefs, ritual practices and moral precepts which are the sum of religion to the majority.

  Yes, a humongous irony. Perhaps religion is the outcome of the futile attempt to own or somehow bottle the essence.

  It is also ironic (to me) that so often this deconstruction of identity is immediately reconstructed as another identity or supra-identity ("true Self," "true I," "true Consciousness" -- insert your own favourite capitalised substitute for "God" or "Christ" or "Buddha").

  It certainly seem to be the case that the mental concepts of non-ego can all too easily be incorporated into the ego. It can get pretty tricky at times, and Eckhart often points out that "spiritual seekers" need to be especially wary of this.

  Whatever, I hold "this" to be potentially both helpful and harmful. A remedy and a poison that I would definitely not recommend to everybody, only to people whom I feel need it. Btw I suspect that anyone who does need it will find it when s/he really needs it, with, without or in spite of what I may say about it. The only value of hinting to "it," imo, is to help people who get "there" know (or believe?) that they are not crazy -- or that they are not the only crazy ones...

  In my own case I have found that if there is no readiness for something, there is no comprehension and it all just seems crazy -- no harm done. When there is readiness, it is as if the knowledge exists whole within already, and the guidance heard is just a reminder of what already is.

  j
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  nvrgnbk

  I'd like to offer my experience with what "it" is that JamesThomas and poppers, and now purps, and many others on JWD are finding.

  Not that anyone will care. But, in response to the comments of Narkissos, whom I respect as being very well-read and intelligent, I feel an urge to give my two cents.

  When I was an active Witness, I fervently prayed to Jehovah to help me to see what was real. That's all I wanted. I didn't have to like it or dislike it. I just wanted to live in reality. Strip away all the illusion. At the time I prayed this, I was unsure of the very existence of Jehovah. Still am. In fact, I'm pretty certain that He, as we have learned Him to be, does not exist. However, once I made that my desire, to see reality, with clarity, that is exactly what began to happen. Mental clarity. All my questions answered? Of course not. But, I'm no longer identifying myself as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. And that feels right. I always knew something was wrong there. I just wasn't ready to accept it.

  When I started posting on JWD, less than five months ago, I started to identify the various camps. Christians of different persuasions, some claiming to have had spiritual experiences with Jesus Christ, even being called to various ministries. Others were very well-versed in the Bible, from a scholarly standpoint, but hesitated to share where their studies had left them with regards to personal belief. Then the agnostics. Then the atheists. Then all kinds who resist labels of any sort. I'm sure I'm leaving out a bunch.

  Was I looking to fill the "void" left after abandoning my life as a Witness? Perhaps. I'd rather call it a keen desire to gain further clarity about all that is life and the universe of which that life is a part. When I read JT's posts for the first time, I felt he was on to something. Then I noticed poppers expressing similar ideas. I still don't know what to call "it". No one has asked me to send them any money. No one has asked me to go join a group. No one has told me that if I don't believe this way or that way, I will suffer disastrous consequences. I simply was invited to observe what's been there all along. I was already becoming "aware". Now I just found myself, for the first time in my life, in the company of like-minded individuals. If I am on a dangerous path, or otherwise in error, I invite sincere advice.

  I've come to no final conclusion about anything. I cannot go back to being a Witness, not knowing what I know. I welcome any observations. If I'm missing something, if someone knows of something better than quietly contemplating what remains after all the dogma and prejudice and assumptions and self-imposed limitations of attention are stripped away, I'd love to hear about it. Sincerely I would.
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  tetrapod.sapien

  well, if fear ultimately leads to death (via hatred and suffering), then the origins of fear is ultimately death. and if you think about it, you can see fear reaching backwards from your "death" towards you.

  breaking the cycle psychologically, transcending, is bliss. language is a powerful portal into understanding this and experiencing it. we seem to forget that in retrospect. tolle, as said, is a master of language in a languageless land. and as also said, the mystical traditions of pretty much all h sapien branches are about coming into contact with this bliss in some convoluted way.

  personally: fear is the ultimate joke because death is the ultimate joke. when that is stumbled upon, the rest is just laughter. because, ya, it's pretty funny sh!t. i mean, isn't the way past fear also radical acceptance of it? and to accept it, you have to know its roots.

  after ego death, physiological death seems like an odd requirement.

  tetra
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  poppers

  Nvr, I really appreciate your heartfelt post - wonderful honesty there, showing a clear desire to follow your heart wherever that may lead. You are a warrior after truth. I salute your effort.
  
  From tetrapod: "fear is the ultimate joke because death is the ultimate joke. when that is stumbled upon, the rest is just laughter. because, ya, it's pretty funny sh!t. i mean, isn't the way past fear also radical acceptance of it? and to accept it, you have to know its roots.
  
  after ego death, physiological death seems like an odd requirement."
  
  What a great addition to this thread, and what a pleasure it's been to follow your posts over time. Sincerely .... poppers
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  nvrgnbk

  Thanks poppers. Thanks for nothing! LOL!
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  poppers

  Hey nvr, check out the "Bumper Sticker" thread.
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  darth frosty

  marked
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  nvrgnbk

  Hey nvr, check out the "Bumper Sticker" thread.

  Thanks poppers. I got a kick out of them. Funny.

  BTW, I'm thinking of changing my name.

  To M.T. Ness.

  I'll bet you've heard that a thousand times. LOL!
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  purplesofa

  nvrgnbk I posted a little bit from Carolyn Myss's book Anatomy of the Spirit not long ago, part of what she says about tribal culture. You might like this We can be stuck between two worlds; the old world that we need to release and the new world that we are afraid to enter. We are attracted to becoming more "conscious" but at the same time we find it frightening because it means we must take personal responsibility for ourselves—and for our health, career, attitudes and thoughts. Once we accept personal responsibility for even one area of our lives, we can never again use "tribal reasoning" to excuse our behavior. In response to this I still don't know what to call "it". No one has asked me to send them any money. No one has asked me to go join a group. No one has told me that if I don't believe this way or that way, I will suffer disastrous consequences. I simply was invited to observe what's been there all along. I was already becoming "aware". Now I just found myself, for the first time in my life, in the company of like-minded individuals. If I am on a dangerous path, or otherwise in error, I invite sincere advice. I think while it is nice to find people that think and feel as you do, when you are in "it" you still can feel complete alone. I think the connection I feel within myself, I feel disconnected with the "world" worldy things, but a peaceful calmness connection inside me with nature, the cosmos, the universe, and my contacts with people are at a different level for myself and others. Maybe the path you are on is the narrow road spoke about in the bible nvr. I dont know purps