The Origin of Fear

by purplesofa 53 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • purplesofa
    purplesofa
    The way I understand the being "complete alone bit" is that it is not a suggestion that we isolate ourselves from others, rather that we quit finding our identity in others. In other words, who we are is no longer dependent on or defined by another. Actually it may improve interpersonal relationships, because we bring a wholeness to them. IMHO.

    Also, we may be alone in our connection with another, in that, no one else may see or sense, feel or think something we observe. I could be wrong, but I feel that we can love unconditionally in this completeness? What do you all think?

    who we are is no longer dependent on or defined by another

    I just went through another growing phase of this. My kids growing up and leaving home(sorta) I am not so identified as my kids MOM, and that was/is a definate identity for a mother. I think alot of us get thrown in it at the end of raising children and either sink or swim. Probably went off topic a bit, sorry.

    purps

    WELCOME TO THE BOARD

    quietlyleaving,,,,,,,,and yes I love feeling close with nature and letting it calm me and give me peace.

  • quietlyleaving
    quietlyleaving

    NVR

    The way I understand the being "complete alone bit" is that it is not a suggestion that we isolate ourselves from others, rather that we quit finding our identity in others. In other words, who we are is no longer dependent on or defined by another. Actually it may improve interpersonal relationships, because we bring a wholeness to them. IMHO.

    I understand what you are saying nvr - and I am mostly positive about eckhart tolle. In fact his pointers help me tremendously in my day to day interactions with my husband and friends. But I don't know anyone else in my area who practices such things.

    Perhaps my feelings of isolation have to do with my situation and I need to take steps to alleviate that. Eckhart tolle's pointers can only help one up to a point in that respect.

  • quietlyleaving
    quietlyleaving
    Also, we may be alone in our connection with another, in that, no one else may see or sense, feel or think something we observe.

    yes purps, that's exactly it.

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    I just went through another growing phase of this. My kids growing up and leaving home(sorta) I am not so identified as my kids MOM, and that was/is a definate identity for a mother. I think alot of us get thrown in it at the end of raising children and either sink or swim. Probably went off topic a bit, sorry.

    1. It's your thread purps. You can take it where you want to. LOL!

    2. It goes to exactly what i was getting at. I think we are seeing this similarly.

    3. Quietlyleaving, sorry for not welcoming you sooner. Expect to be welcomed. LOL!

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos
    In my own case I have found that if there is no readiness for something, there is no comprehension and it all just seems crazy -- no harm done.

    I quite agree James.

    It gets harmful, imho, when the "craziness," instead of being embraced or rejected individually as such, turns into a fashionable "wisdom" and eventually a kind of religion; when it comes to be recommended or looked for as objectively "good," and good to all. At this point people who neither really need it nor can truly understand it will be inclined to pretend they do, and harm themselves and others.

    For instance, I think much of the "cross" symbolism ("dying to oneself" etc.) has meant about the same "thing" to Christian mystics. Yet its wider religious and cultural "success" has cast a dark blanket over much of the natural freshness of life in Christian civilisation for many centuries, and thus it has poisoned many minds and lives.

    I would expect from a genuine "spiritual master" that s/he would openly acknowledge that his/her way is not everybody's way -- without construing that in a judgemental or elitist fashion of course. Iow, that s/he would dread to have the wrong kind of followers instead of no follower at all.

    I think many if not most people can live healthy, happy, good and rewarding lives without ever questioning their sense of "separate self" until they die. They don't lose anything: they are helpful as they are and there is no conditional hereafter bliss at stake.

    That was definitely not my case. At some point I really needed the remedy. But I would hate to poison a healthy person with it.

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk
    But I would hate to poison a healthy person with it.

    I think I get you Nark. Thanks.

  • purplesofa
    purplesofa

    It gets harmful, imho, when the "craziness," instead of being embraced or rejected individually as such, turns into a fashionable "wisdom" and eventually a kind of religion; when it comes to be recommended or looked for as objectively "good," and good to all. At this point people who neither really need it nor can truly understand it will be inclined to pretend they do, and harm themselves and others.

    I agree, .........this happens and people lose their own personal journey. The other person becomes selfish, feeding their ego and thats where the harm is.

    purps

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    Purps:

    I wanted to bring out how many years I lived in this constant state fearing Armeggedon was any day coming. Of all the things I regret the most of the JW experiance is this. Every single day I was so afraid of the future I missed out on my life and my kids.

    This is perhaps the saddest tragedy of a JW type belief system, is that it has us always reaching fearfully past this moment of life to some make-believe future time and place. We become the walking-dead with our focus and significance placed in a dream as we allow reality to pass us by. Your right Purps, the best thing we can do for others is to be deliciously present ourselves.

    As far as aloneness; there can come a moment within self investigation, that it is clearly realized that "I" am nothing that the mind and circumstance creates or presents, and instead have no recognizable or definable boundary. Here, as the walls dissolve, does "other" (and so there is a vast pristine aloneness). You are everything, but no specific thing. Here, love blooms as there is no other to despise (which doesn't mean you necessarily like everyone, separate forms still remain -- there is just a deeper realised consciousness of oneness).

    Narkissos:

    It gets harmful, imho, when the "craziness," instead of being embraced or rejected individually as such, turns into a fashionable "wisdom" and eventually a kind of religion; when it comes to be recommended or looked for as objectively "good," and good to all. At this point people who neither really need it nor can truly understand it will be inclined to pretend they do, and harm themselves and others.

    For instance, I think much of the "cross" symbolism ("dying to oneself" etc.) has meant about the same "thing" to Christian mystics. Yet its wider religious and cultural "success" has cast a dark blanket over much of the natural freshness of life in Christian civilisation for many centuries, and thus it has poisoned many minds and lives.

    In this case the "craziness" is not a teaching but rather a finger pointing to the fact that you are not the isolated and broken individual believed to be, but rather whole and pristine. It is not the message which is poison, rather it is the corrupt interpretation that the mind can add. This is probably why much of Eckhart Tolle's book: The Power of Now, deals with gently and nonjudgmentally watching the mind's antics and manipulations. In my opinion Eckhart's way of expressing is far more precise and clear, and so more difficult and less likely to be manipulated than the way Christianity expressed -- what we both agree is likely the very same foundational message.

    The message is a universal one as the foundational reality to which it points incorporates all existence. No one, or no thing is left out. What the mind does with the information, who can say. You place the message out there, and the chips fall where they may.

    j

  • purplesofa
    purplesofa
    a finger pointing to the fact that you are not the isolated and broken individual believed to be, but rather whole and pristine.

    You can tell alot about others in their response to you, anger, frustration, fear, bewilderment,

    The message is a universal one as the foundational reality to which it points incorporates all existence. No one, or no thing is left out. What the mind does with the information, who can say. You place the message out there, and the chips fall where they may.

    Here is where I like what Tolle says about how this is usually attained right before death, and that the way to live is to be as you have already died(i think that is what it said)

    So as much life as we can live experiancing this before death the richer and deeper our lives will be, and truely eveyone that we come into contact benefits.

    purps

    mmmmmm.........is it time for a cigarette?

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    Purps:

    Here is where I like what Tolle says about how this is usually attained right before death, and that the way to live is to be as you have already died(i think that is what it said)

    So as much life as we can live experiancing this before death the richer and deeper our lives will be, and truely eveyone that we come into contact benefits.

    Yes, when the body and brain are dying, there is no energy left to hold on to all that was believed and conceptualized to be true about "self" and "other" (all the rest of the universe seemingly separate from the physical body). The lies fade and dissolve. The pristine foundational reality, remains untouched. Ahhhh, here I am; the way, the life and the truth. The gloriously pristine peace and wholeness that a life time was used futilely trying to attain. We truly already are what we seek. Why wait until death. Die before you die, and live this expression of life in the deep richness and unity that really IS.

    This is easy to say, but a lot of stuff can arise that is being held tightly onto, and this can unfold as a great deal of fear. It's as if the false self does not want to die, and so self-preservation mechanisms can sometimes kick into high gear. Personally I have experienced -- at times -- terrorizing fear because of this. One way to lighten the load is to assure the mind, the ego, that it need not fear. The ego can come along to, it's just that once our authenticity is realised, the thoughts, beliefs, memories and emotions that make up the false-self of the ego are seen for what they are: a chimera. They lose their power. So, I generally do not choose to use terms like "death of the ego". It's more a way of gentle allowance rather than violence or some kind of force. As I recall Eckhart was one who was key in helping me see it this way.

    Good for you, Purps. It's fun to see you catch on to all this, and you have a sweet and, ummm, sensuous way about it....but then there is revealed a very fine and deep richness that was missed before; and the senses like it a lot.

    Got another cigarette?

    j

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