Musical Dishonesty - What next?

by hillary_step 82 Replies latest social entertainment

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  hillary_step

  One of the saddest and imho dishonest introductions into the popular music world in recent times is the processor introduced by Antares called 'auto-tune'.

  This combination of hardware and software processes the music, and especially the vocals of musicians, to automatically correct the tuning for example, of voices which cannot hold a note or sing in tune and does so in virtually real-time. It is used by a growing number of vocalists who are untrained and cannot sing in tune and allows them to parade on stage as if they were note perfect.

  Numerous amateur and professional performers alike have decided that Autotune is one way that removes the need for talent or hard work and have no issue with dishonestly representing themselves as long as the cash flows. It is set to become standard equipment on tour.

  I cannot help but feel that we have lost something big along the way.

  HS
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  Makena1

  I agree. Hopefully pure artists will advertise that their concerts are "auto tune" free zones???!!
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  Leolaia

  Are there distinctive aural signatures from the use of the "auto-tune" algorythm?
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  hillary_step

  Leolaia,

  Are there distinctive aural signatures from the use of the "auto-tune" algorythm?

  From what I understand measurable only under instrumentation and not noticeable to the human ear. There is of course other software/hardware available that corrects percussion and rhythm pitch etc. All in all, a retrograde step musically imho.

  One of the reasons that many of the early recordings from the 60's & 70's are so 'fresh' sounding is that they were recorded in one or two takes, free of digital enhanceents etc. The musicians learned how to play and sing, they had to as they could not rely on technology to sing and play for them.

  For example. Shortly I am producing a CD of a Jazz trio. These musicians have played with Miles Davis, Herb Ellis, Chet Atkins, Ellington, Kenton etc. I have borrowed a home to do the recording in with a Hamburg Steinway as I have always wanted to do a recording out of studio. These guys are doing a two hour practice session, then two five hour takes and that is it. My engineer is delighted as he usually has to spend days with young musicians manipulating their 'sound' so that it does not offend the ear.

  Bring back the professionals!

  HS
• 

  Little Drummer Boy

  HS, I've been a semi-pro musician at one point and I agree with you to a point about needing quality musicians around. I don't think it is anything new though. For instance, I think the Beatles are absolute and utter CRAP, but that didn't seem to stop them.

  I also dabble in digital recording for my wife who is a vocalist.

  On another point, I frequently listen to my copy of "Sound of Silence". An absolutely gorgeous and moving song for me. However, as a musician. and a hobbyist sound-tech..I gotta tell you..that recording suuuucks. They should have taken about 20 more takes...for each member of the group on that one. Things out of time, out of tune...yuck. Still a great song though.

  But I do love a musician who is great at their art. My wife "makes" me go to Josh Groban concerts. Not a person on that stage (and there are many in his band) who doesn't play near flawlessly.

  My 2 cents.
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  hillary_step

  LittleDrummerBoy,

  For instance, I think the Beatles are absolute and utter CRAP, but that didn't seem to stop them.

  lol....I am sure that statement will stir up a storm. While I would not describe them as 'crap', they did write some wonderful melodies and "Eleanor Rigby" is nothing to be ashamed of; I will admit to never having owned any music by the Beatles, and I was around in the 60's. They were never of much interest to me.

  On another point, I frequently listen to my copy of "Sound of Silence". An absolutely gorgeous and moving song for me. However, as a musician. and a hobbyist sound-tech..I gotta tell you..that recording suuuucks.

  Yes, I agree, but it was recorded in 1965, over forty years ago, and that overblown 'blousy' sound was still being experimented with at the time. Paul Simon was never my cup of tea either, though I think "America" to be a definitive song.

  HS
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  Little Drummer Boy

  Oh, I completely agree that the "genre" that Sound of Silence is in was in early stages and was experimental. And I also concede the time frame and all that implies as far as recording technology. In this case, I'm not refering to identifiable guitar strumming technique, amp distortion settings, etc that puts the song in a certain genre where it can be excused as experimental. My complaint with the recording is what I mentioned...guitars out of tune (not on purpose), drums not keeping the beat (I'm a drummer, it jumps out at me like nails on a chalk board). In other words, poor musicianship/lack of number of recording takes.

  S&G was just the first group that came to mind as an example of people who are respected as musicians, but where I can point to a specific recording and go, "Listen, right there....see where they screwed up".

  And I still maintain that the Beatles are "crap".
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  hillary_step

  Drummerboy,

  My complaint with the recording is what I mentioned...guitars out of tune (not on purpose), drums not keeping the beat (I'm a drummer, it jumps out at me like nails on a chalk board). In other words, poor musicianship/lack of number of recording takes.

  Yes, I accept that the musicianship was sub-standard. The concept of the music however was not.

  My point would be that ten years later Paul Simon, though he maintained that awfull blousy sound, had surrounded themselves with professionals who took his music where he wanted it to. The people that are using auto-tune and other digital means to correct their singing and playing are already viewed as successful professionals. Think Madonna for example, she has great musicians backing her, but uses auto-tune. My complaint is with the dishonesty that these people are prepared to work with.

  I do not see what happened in the early days of a certain musical genre as being comparable with my complaint as posted in my original post. As it is I can list you scores of perfectly recorded and played music from that era. Have you heard the 1967 recording by folk group 'The Pentangle' for example? Recorded in one take, the production is breathtaking.

  A drum machine plays in perfect time, it is the perfect musician - auto-tune similarly, that is not what I am speaking off. I can lend your ear to some jazz drummers that are iconocalstic and utterly professional but not beat perfect, Elvin Jones for example. The Stax in-house drummer who was shot in the mid 70's ( forgot his name) is another example.

  As I noted, there are those who are singing and playing superbly today without relying on studio tricks to do so.

  HS
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  Open mind

  Boy, if Auto-Tune had come to market just a few years earlier, we'd still be blessed with the sonic perfection of Milli Vanilli.

  Too bad they got busted. Not!!

  Open Mind
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  Open mind

  LDB:
  drums not keeping the beat (I'm a drummer, it jumps out at me like nails on a chalk board).

  Hey LDB,

  I've played in a couple "garage bands" (or should I say "garbage bands") and never had a drummer who could hold a beat. The keyboard player and/or bass player would always have to try keeping him to a somewhat uniform tempo.

  Then I was talking to my son's music teacher the other day and he said that it's very common, especially among amateurs, for drummers to have a lousy sense of tempo. What's your take?

  Open Mind