WHAT do YOU know about JESUS... and His teachings?

by hibiscusfire 286 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  hibiscusfire

  journey-on: But, remember, also, Mary was the one that activated him to perform his first miracle. He told her he wasn't ready, but she, more or less, told him to do it anyway. AND HE DID just as she told him to

  This is not quite accurate journey-on. The wedding in Cana gives us an idea about the relationship between Mary and Jesus. In John, chapter 2, you may have read about that wedding. It was Jesus' first miracle. The story, however portrays Mary in a rather negative way, being like a pushy mother even.

  The wine ran out. This would have created much embarrassment for any host. Caterers usually made up for these kinds of mess in a snap. In other words, Mary’s request was not a life and death matter, and it was not one that Jesus had to solve. He could have told her, “Mummy, if they failed to plan properly then it not an emergency that we must deal with."

  Alcoholic wine was normally served at these big parties and usually regularly watered down after the first and best wine had been served. This wine would have been concentrated. The idea was to serve the best wine first, before the crowd was too drunk to notice. Mary went to Jesus and said, “All the wine has finished.” She was implying, “Do something.” Mary knew that Jesus could perform miracles but was not at all trying to pressure her son into helping. Her intentions were good, it was so that the families of the bride and bridegroom would not be embarrased at their own wedding!

  Jesus called then His mother "Woman"! In the attempt to assert maternal influence, Mary received a rather abrupt and surprising response.

  John 2:4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

  Even though this is a respectful way of speaking to someone, it certainly is not the normal way to talk to your own mother! Don't you think this seems to be some kind of disconnection from maternal authority? Mary was trying to stress her authority, but Jesus pointed out that it was not necessary in the matter.

  Then: John 2: 5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.

  This was more like advice to the servants. Mary could not order Jesus to do this miracle.

  hibiscusfire
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  journey-on

  Hib

  In all due respect, you are mouthing what we have all heard about this story. It's nothing new. Go deeper and leave your preconceived religious explanation behind, and think.

  After everything you said, even after Jesus telling his mother that "mine hour has not yet come", he did it anyway.

  She showed him respect and allowed him to "speak" up to her, but in the end, he did as she instructed him to. I can just see her giving him the "mother's eye" (If you are a mom, you'll know what I'm talking about).

  Too bad words can't convey gestures and facial expressions that can say so much more! A long stare at him with one eyebrow raised and a command to the servants while holding the stare probably set things in motion. Regardless of whether he thought his hour was come or not, he did what his mother wanted him to do.
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  serotonin_wraith

  No, of course not! Mary did not forget about that. It is what Jesus told her that took her by surprise. Just like the teachers in the temple, no one would expect a little 12 year old to be that way. Mary just didn't think about how soon Jesus would start doing His Father's work. She didn't fully understand where Jesus was coming from in His answer.

  How in the world did you get that meaning from the scriptures?

  Luke 2:49,50:

  "Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?" But they did not understand what he was saying to them.

  Nothing about being surprised. Nothing about Mary thinking he should have been doing this later in life. It shouldn't have taken long to understand what he was saying if she was aware of his heritage.
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  hibiscusfire

  sero:How in the world did you get that meaning from the scriptures?

  I believe in a way it is obvious any parent would feel surprised if their child was missing for 3 days, and after looking for him/her in such a worried state of mind that the child would say..."why were you looking for me?" Wouldn't you be like, "Well really!!" And perhaps even get angry and at the same time be relieved?

  Think of normal human behaviour at the point someone tells you something that affects your emotions. After all Mary and Joseph were only human.

  Why would Jesus say that when they were worried to death? He told them in a way like, "You should have known I would be in My Father's House." How could they have understood that then and there just like that?

  hibiscusfire
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  serotonin_wraith

  You are adding to what is written. It doesn't say they didn't understand right there and then, but after they calmed down they did. It says 'but they did not understand what he was saying to them'. Full stop. The end. You can add stuff to it in your head by all means, but it's not found in the Bible itself. You're adding to God's 'perfect word' to make sense of it.
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  hibiscusfire

  sero: You are adding to what is written. It doesn't say they didn't understand right there and then, but after they calmed down they did. It says 'but they did not understand what he was saying to them'. Full stop. The end. You're adding to God's 'perfect word' to make sense of it.

  I lost you there. I am not adding anything to the Bible. But I do want to ask you how are you so certain that they didn't find out or figure out what happened after? The Bible didn't go into all that details. Do you think it is necessary? I don't think it was necessary. So even if I made those comments, I only imagined what happened after...but to make a big deal about it...uh uh. hibiscusfire
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  serotonin_wraith

  I only imagined what happened after

  Exactly.

  Then you pass it off as fact.

  It's not a huge deal or anything no, but we don't only write about 'big deal' stuff in this forum. We chat about all kinds of things.
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  hibiscusfire

  journeyon- She showed him respect and allowed him to "speak" up to her, but in the end, he did as she instructed him to. I can just see her giving him the "mother's eye"

  That is just not right. Sero how come you are not saying that journeyon is adding to the Bible?

  What exactly did Mary instruct Jesus to do journeyon? That is just so wrong. (shakes my head)

  From John 2......

  3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

  4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

  5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.

  But there is no indication she ordered Jesus to turn the water into wine or made Him do it. She was hoping that He would do some miracle to save the hosts from being embarrassed and He did perform His first miracle. Mary did what she was supposed to do....but how can anyone order God to do something?

  At this time, Jesus did not performed any miracles yet. Some people may say that Mary didn’t expect Him to perform one here. She knew who He was. He was a perfect son. She knew He was the Messiah. Maybe Mary had heard about His baptism and the Voice coming out of heaven or, she thought it was time for Him to go public with His identity. Suppose she was just going to him, expecting him to bail her out or give her advice , but she might have even expected something supernatural - a miracle.

  Maybe Mary was trying to dictate when Jesus was to start revealing Himself as the Son of God. This doesn’t mean He can’t help her. He was just pointing out that she doesn’t control when He reveals Himself.

  hibie
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  hibiscusfire

  I just wanted to let you know that I love Mary too. She was a wonderful person. So was Joseph.

  Jesus was a good son to them. At the wedding in Cana though, Mary, His mother had to recognise Jesus for who He is. Now His public work begins. "His hour" which is God's Hour indicated that Mary had to release Him for this deeper loyalty to His Heavenly Father. Mary took the full blow of what Jesus had said to her and she had accepted it right away. She was indeed a wonderful woman!!!

  She had only wanted to show off her Son to the world because she was very proud of Him. But...in a way, she sort of lost Him. If she had felt hurt in any way, she did not show it. She did not try to influence Him in any way. She trusted Him instead...with her whole heart. Her immediate response was to do at once to the servants and say, "Do whatever He tells you to do."

  She had put her own desire aside. That mother's desire ...and right then and there, even though she did not know what Jesus' desire might have been, she accepted it. She had total faith and trust in Jesus. He made everyone happy.

  Jesus will bring joy into our lives God's way, not our way. He will not do for us what we want... only what His Father wants.

  He will do that. And it will be joy to us ... it will be our happiness that - not our dream, but God's dream for us - comes true. God waits to do for every one of us a new thing ... a thing it has not dawned on us yet to ask for.

  hibiscusfire
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  eclipse

  Mary did what she was supposed to do....but how can anyone order God to do something?

  Jesus will bring joy into our lives God's way, not our way. He will not do for us what we want... only what His Father wants.

  So are you saying that Jesus is God, or that Jesus is god's son?? because it cannot be BOTH.

  How can you say that he does 'what his father wants'...if he is his own father?

  You are making alot of assumptions about the feelings and motives of mary and jesus, and that is your perogative.

  But to pass it off as if it is factual is presumptuous and inaccurate, don't you think?

  I dont know how to turn off the red font!!