Christians - Convert me! I'm Pagan!

by Sirona 90 Replies latest jw friends

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  Sirona

  Sirona: Deputy Dog pretty much said I'm not "chosen". What happens to those not chosen?

  DD: Deputy Dog said no such thing. The bible did the speaking. I don't know if you're chosen or not, or when God may reveal Himself to you. It may be today, or as with the man crucified next to Christ, on the day you die.

  DD, I'll be honest with you. It is the height of arrogance to suggest that one day, God will possibly decide I'm worthy enough, but then again he might not bother with me after all. Arrogant because you think that you have the only correct interpretation of the bible. Arrogant because you think you've been picked and I've not....not yet at least.

  Nor have you endeared to paganism.

  Paganism is beloved to me, so how dare you suggest that I'm not endeared to it!

  As you use up the common grace of God, and your life nears it end, you may call out to the sovereign God of the universe instead of the impotent god of paganism (that is my hope for you Sirona). Time will tell

  I am not "using up the grace of God". How dare you! You don't know anything about my life. It is this sort of attitude, which elevates you and your Christian born again friends above others and which is plain WRONG.

  As for the God of paganism being impotent. Well firstly, there are lots of Pagan Gods and Goddesses. Secondly, they existed before your "Jesus". Thirdly, some of them even had many of the same features as "Jesus". It just so happened that the Pauline church won out and your brand of Christianity spread around the world, unfortunately resulting in millions of deaths in the process, whilst they "lovingly" convinced everyone to convert. Pagan Gods/Goddesses have done more than Jesus ever did. For thousands of years - at least five thousand years - the ancient Egyptians worshipped pagan Gods. Where was Jesus then? Also, around the world today are other faiths. Paganism, Islam, Buddhism, Taoism, - millions upon millions of people who are not Christian. So how IMPOTENT are the Gods who have made sure that we outnumber you? Sirona
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  diamondblue1974

  
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  Sunspot

  Sunspot,

  Years ago when I hadn't yet become pagan, I attended a Christian church frequented by Born Again Christians.

  I learned the idea of asking Jesus, from the heart....and being open....and being repentant for all I'd done wrong.

  I tried it. Nothing happened. I tried it again. Nothing happened.

  Sirona, I haven't "gone around" too much to talk about my experience with this.....so I have not had much of an opportunity to discuss this (not) happening with anyone else that has asked. Yours is the first time I have seen this even alluded to. All I can say at this point is that I feel very badly for you, that you didn't feel what I felt, because I am almost positive that if you had, this conversation would not be taking place.I could sit here and say well "maybe it was this" or "maybe it was that", but I truthfully don't know, I cannot explain this....and I won't pretend that I can. It only makes me feel sad.

  It doesn't endear me to the Christian God....

  Again.....I can only sepak from my personal experience on this: but after being trapped in the ever-demanding and rigid WTS teachings of a vengeful God that you are ALWAYS AND CONSTANTLY STRIVING TO BE "PLEASING" TO.....(and never feeling you are making it) I can only wonder WHY "the Christian God" as you see him.....is not much to write home about either.

  THIS is one of THE most interesting things that has happened since I BECAME a Christian (not a JW), and that is an entirely NEW love, appreciation and respect for the Jesus Christ that was so well hidden from me AS a JW! It just changes EVERYTHING that I knew, thought I knew, or was taught before I heard his voice calling me OUT of the WTS. It has changed me completely. He is NOTHING as I imagined him to be....and nothing at all that I was taught at the Kingdom Hall.

  After leaving the WTS, I used to see those "testimonies" online, from those that "found Jesus"....and I thought they were a bit contrived for whatever reasons. I know NOW----exactly how these people felt and what they were trying to express in their own words. I am more than thrilled now, to be on "this side of things", and to be in accord with what these testimonies bring out from their hearts.

  I cannot IMAGINE ever turning to "another God" (or Gods) to fill the spiritual void in me if I ever stopped trusting in Jesus, so I have absolutely no reference point in which to speak to you on this particular level. I can only say that I dearly and sincerely hope that you will be able to find whatever it was you were missing through Jesus, and that you WILL be successful in finding the path TO him. He IS waiting right there, dear. He really is.....and he loves us ALL. After all.....he gave his LIFE for each and every one of us.

  hugs,

  Annie
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  Sirona

  Thanks Annie.

  I wonder if Deputy Dog will reply to this topic?

  Sirona
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  Deputy Dog

  Sirona

  I'm sorry

  Nor have you endeared to paganism.

  Paganism is beloved to me, so how dare you suggest that I'm not endeared to it!

  What I meant to say was: Nor have you endeared ME to paganism.

  Arrogant because you think that you have the only correct interpretation of the bible.

  How did you "interpret" the verses I posted?

  Arrogant because you think you've been picked and I've not....not yet at least.

  I don't think that at all. If you are chosen, it was before the foundation of the world. You just don't seem to know it yet.

  I am not "using up the grace of God". How dare you! You don't know anything about my life. It is this sort of attitude, which elevates you and your Christian born again friends above others and which is plain WRONG.

  First of all I don't need to know anything about your life, God is pouring out common grace on everyone. You refuse to give Him the credit for it that He deserves. I also believe time (and or grace) runs out on everyone who does not believe and a day will come when many people will wish they had not wasted that time. As for my "attitude". If I have given you or anyone else the impression that I or any other Christian is any better or more deserving of salvation, let me clear that up by saying this. I don't know why God would choose to save the likes of me. I see myself much as the apostle Paul, the worst of sinners. I don't deserve my salvation in any way, it was given as a free gift.

  It just so happened that the Pauline church won out and your brand of Christianity spread around the world, unfortunately resulting in millions of deaths in the process, whilst they "lovingly" convinced everyone to convert.

  If you've read any of my posts so far, you know it wasn't my brand of Christianity. God does the converting and convincing, not people. As for the numbers of nonbelievers and false gods. Do you think they are going to gang up on me? I don't worry about the numbers.
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  Deputy Dog

  Sirona Something that you said to Sunspot has been bugging me.

  Sunspot, Years ago when I hadn't yet become pagan, I attended a Christian church frequented by Born Again Christians. I learned the idea of asking Jesus, from the heart....and being open....and being repentant for all I'd done wrong. I tried it. Nothing happened. I tried it again. Nothing happened. Sirona

  What do you mean "Nothing happened"? Jesus died on a cross so you could have eternal life. What else did you expect? Was that not enough?
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  diamondblue1974

  I see myself much as the apostle Paul, the worst of sinners. I don't deserve my salvation in any way, it was given as a free gift.

  Respectfully, I dont get this.

  We were all created in the state we are in and I dont believe for one minute that either you or I are inherently evil or bad - sure we are not perfect but nonetheless I would prefer to believe that we wouldnt harm any of our fellow man intentionally.

  So on this basis, and the fact that we were born this way I dont see why I should have to kneel and beg for forgiveness - dont get me wrong, I dont mean this in an arrogant way I just dont see how any creator would create me imperfect then condemn me for it. I dont see divinity that way at all.

  This has always troubled me doctrinally and this is probably why I am not Christian. That being said, I am not saying that I dont respect Christianity as a valid belief system because I do but I see it no different, no better or no worse that Paganism. I do take exception to those that are intolerant of my path though.

  Just my point of view

  Peace

  Gary
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  Sirona

  Ok I'm sorry if I sounded harsh, Deputy Dog, you annoyed me.

  You are advocating your "brand" of Christianity, because there are other Christians out there who follow Jesus but in a different way to you.

  As Diamondblue said, I don't believe a God would create us and then expect us to beg and kneel in order to live. Neither do I think that he looks at his children and pick out only certain ones who he wants in heaven.

  I think that all - atheists, Christians, Buddhists, Pagans etc. are viewed in the same way. To say otherwise is an attempt to elevate yourself and other Christians.

  Sirona
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  Deputy Dog

  Sirona

  As Diamondblue said, I don't believe a God would create us and then expect us to beg and kneel in order to live. Neither do I think that he looks at his children and pick out only certain ones who he wants in heaven.

  I don't believe all humans are God's children. They're all His creation. His children hear His voice and come to His call.

  John 8:42

  Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.43"Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.44"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.45"But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.46"Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me?47"He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."

  But, don't worry, you don't believe the bible. Right? I'll let you do the "interpreting"

  I think that all - atheists, Christians, Buddhists, Pagans etc. are viewed in the same way. To say otherwise is an attempt to elevate yourself and other Christians.

  You said I'm Arrogant and "Deputy Dog, you annoyed me." Who is doing the elevating now?
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  LittleToe

  I'm rarely around here these days as life has caught up with me. However I did stumble upon this gem of a thread, today. I hope I'll be able to contribute to it further, but time is sparce.

  The answer to the question is: 42, or if you don't like that one: 23.

  Everyone knows that Christ-ianity is the bestest, so there's little to argue really

  I don't believe a God would create us and then expect us to beg and kneel in order to live.

  Neither do I. However its interesting to see how many who experience the Divine find themselves so awed by the experience that their natural reaction is one of reverence...

  Surely Pagans and Christians alike acknowledge that everything in life is a gift, from the first breath of life to the environment our parents bring us into and mold for us? We get a chance to further mold our environment, and the resources that we temporarily have stewardship over, but ultimately we leave them to another generation once we shrug off this mortal coil. Even the exact timing of that departure is more often outwith our control

  We have little personal choice over the start of this life, why should we claim personal choice over the next? If we acknowledge the possibility of the Divine are we not also acknowledging that we can be the recipient of gifts and that the giver has the right to give or withhold at will? Otherwise how are we defining the word "gift"? Further is "life", in this world or the next, truly a gift? Is it possible to earn a gift?

  "Total control" is an oxymoron.

  LT, of the "unorthodox five-point Calvinist" class.