Christians - Convert me! I'm Pagan!

by Sirona 90 Replies latest jw friends

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  diamondblue1974

  Neither do I. However its interesting to see how many who experience the Divine find themselves so awed by the experience that their natural reaction is one of reverence...

  Ahh Divinity...I agree but the real problems come when peoples perception of divinity differ and one perception is deemed to be true and another conversely false, thus creating intolerance. Whether you experience the divine as Christ spirit or whether you experience it as the 'God, Goddess' or 'Great Spirit' shouldnt matter and doesnt to the majority of pagans.

  Kneeling in terms of reverence and being made to feel unworthy however are to be contrasted as they are clearly different.

  Going further, It tends to be Christians who suggest that their perception of divinity is the condition upon which enlightenment, rapture, resurrection, (amend to suit) depends and this is where the arguments arise. It leads to an almighty bun fight about whose God is the 'bestest' and whose God is the most powerful - personally I dont see the point.

  Why should anyone have to convert to a particular path in order to be 'saved'?- Why cant spirituality be something that is free rather than imposed? (to suggest that I will lose my life if I dont convert is an imposition in my view.)

  It makes no sense to me.

  Gary
• 

  nvrgnbk

  It makes no sense to me.

  You tell that to Jesus when he's killing your pagan ass!
• 

  diamondblue1974

  You tell that to Jesus when he's killing your pagan ass!

  I am rather surprised you didnt turn up earlier in this thread...your slacking nate, keep up!

  Gary
• 

  Sunspot

  I admit I know less than ZIP about pagan beliefs, but have any of the gods or goddesses that are looked up to.......ever sacrificed their life so that their followers can have eternal life or can attain to salvation through grace?
• 

  diamondblue1974

  ever sacrificed their life so that their followers can have eternal life or can attain to salvation through grace?

  Great point, Yes the God each year offers himself as a sacrifice to the land and is reborn at the Winter Solstice.

  This can be seen as entirely synonymous with Christs sacrifice and then rebirth for the good of mankind but even in saying that, there have been numerous other examples or accounts of saviours which predate Christ himself. There are so many parallels between the Christ account and other pre Christ mythologies its hard not to reach a conclusion that the Christ account is but one of many accounts of saviours being born and dying a sacrificial death. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Christianity#Origins

  That being said I dont wish to discount Christianity as being any less valid than any other belief system and I am not attempting to dissuade people from their own spiritual experiences; I do believe its about what works for you and what enables you to experience divinity in your own way.

  Sirona's thread whilst asking for reasons to convert is merely trying to establish that there are so many common grounds between Paganism and Christianity that we should be seeking to establish common ground rather than being intolerant of each others paths. I dont think for one minute that any creator or creative spirit is going to kill anyone off just because they chose a different path to him or her and I abhor the suggestion of anything different. In my view there is nothing unique about any of the paths discussed.

  Just my tupennys worth (although after all this typing I do think its worth £1 )

  Gary
• 

  Sirona

  Comparison of some characteristics of Horus and Jesus:

  Characteristics	Horus	Yeshua of Nazareth, a.k.a. Jesus
  Nature"	Regarded as a mythical character.	Regarded as a 1st century CE human man-god.
  Main role:	Savior of humanity.	Savior of humanity.
  Status:	God-man.	God-man.
  Common portrayal:	Virgin Isis holding the infant Horus.	Virgin Mary holding the infant Jesus.
  Title:	KRST, the anointed one.	Christ, the anointed one.
  Other names:	The good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, the winnower.	The good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, the winnower.
  Zodiac sign:	Associated with Pisces, the fish.	Associated with Pisces, the fish.
  Main symbols:	Fish, beetle, the vine, shepherd's crook.	Fish, beetle, the vine, the shepherd's crook.

  

  http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm <<<<<<see link for references and more information
• 

  Dansk

  Every week I have to attend Christie Hospital, a major specialist cancer hospital here in the northwest of England. My heart breaks every time I enter the foyer. I've seen sights that would make you cry - from children to the worst deformities imaginable in adults. I ask myself how a loving God could permit such things to go on. My faith in God has been utterly shattered.

  Ian
• 

  Sunspot

  Thank you DiamondBlue and Sirona for your reply on the "sacrifice" info. I do not know who "Horus" is......nor do I actually intend to study up on this to find out. It simply holds no interest for me and I have many topics that I have on hand to look further into....that DO interest me. (I don't mean that to be sarcastic: there ARE so many things to look into and research that are "right up my alley" so to speak) But I did find it of interest that there do seem to be many correlations that you spoke of.

  Briefly, another question: We believe that Jesus gave his perfect and sinless life on behalf of us.....are there pagan gods that claim to be perfect and sinless that come under this "rebirth for the good of mankind" as you related to?

  Annie
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  Sirona

  Hi

  Well if you want more info you'd need to look it up at least briefly on the net.

  Horus is the son of Isis and Osiris - Gods of Ancient Egypt. As such he predates Christianity by thousands of years. Egypt greatly influenced the Isrealites and their world-view.

  Isis, Osiris and Horus are reflected in Mary, Yahweh and Child (Jesus).

  Someone posted on this thread regarding the "Jesus Mysteries" - it is a good book if taken with a pinch of salt. Some good information.

  Sirona
• 

  LittleToe

  Gary:

  Ahh Divinity...I agree but the real problems come when peoples perception of divinity differ...

  This shouldn't be a problem, as it is experienced even within the Christian faith.

  ...and one perception is deemed to be true and another conversely false, thus creating intolerance. Whether you experience the divine as Christ spirit or whether you experience it as the 'God, Goddess' or 'Great Spirit' shouldnt matter and doesnt to the majority of pagans.

  This is nearer the root of the issue... intolerance.

  Kneeling in terms of reverenceand [against?] being made to feel unworthy however are to be contrasted as they are clearly different.

  Before I answer this point can I just clarify that you are making a contrast (as highlighted)?

  If you are contrasting reverential kneeling against being humiliated then I agree. Not all kneeling is done out of being abased by another. In the example that I refer to it is a spontaneous reaction to being in the presence of someone/thing awesome.

  Going further, It tends to be Christians who suggest that their perception of divinity is the condition upon which enlightenment, rapture, resurrection, (amend to suit) depends and this is where the arguments arise. It leads to an almighty bun fight about whose God is the 'bestest' and whose God is the most powerful - personally I dont see the point.

  I disagree. It is a common complaint and altogether very human. Every group tends to prefer their own deity, be it Pan, Ishtar, Jesus, Allah, Vishnu or George Dubya.

  Why should anyone have to convert to a particular path in order to be 'saved'?- Why cant spirituality be something that is free rather than imposed? (to suggest that I will lose my life if I dont convert is an imposition in my view.)

  This comment completely misses the thrust of DeputyDogs points. I'm not attempting to make a fuss, but definitions and terminology are at the root of so many misunderstandings. Please allow me to elaborate somewhat:

  From a Calvinist Christian perspective God chose millenia back and He bides his time and He makes the change in the individual. Its not as if the individual is passive in the matter but neither do they actively "convert" themselves. The flip side of the coin should be that no Christian should say that another is not ultimately "saved" because he's simply in no position to make that call. Personally I find CS Lewis (its worth reading the whole thread minutely) to be one of the more tolerant on this subject.

  It makes no sense to me.

  Of course not. What do you expect? You work in legal!

  Dawn:
  Didier (Narkissos) might have a few things to say about that comparison table. While there are a few similarities between various dieties there are also so many differences as to render such a comparison impossible. Its similar to saying that you and I are the same person when we clearly are not (at least I hope for Gary's sake we're not).