I dont understand the hate...

by JamesWind 79 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  AlmostAtheist

  Firstly, let me acknowledge what you said about deaths from the blood issue, versus deaths from ignorant people refusing to wear seatbelts. Well said, you're right. In terms of numbers, the loss of life from the blood issue is surely less than some other "cause" one could take up.

  >>Blood transfusion does not fall into the extreme severity category (in terms of breaking the rule) and simply acknowledging that you were scared and gave in to a transfusion would qualify you as remorseful.

  I've only been out of the Watchtower for three years. But having discussed issues with many ex-JW's, it seems that JW's break into segments. There are the ones that are only in it for appearances. They watch r-rated movies when no one is watching, and would probably take a blood transfusion, knowing they could "repent" later. But there is another segment (in my experience, large, if not the majority) that truly want to "please Jehovah". It isn't about "rules", it's about pleasing their heavenly father. Except they let the Watchtower tell them what's pleasing and what isn't. He hates "misuse" of blood, so they don't "misuse" it and choose to die instead. What will or won't "get you disfellowshipped" is irrelevant.

  I must admit that there's another issue here. We've all been personally affected by the Watchtower. Some of us (not me) have lost loved ones to the blood issue, to suicide brought on by the effects of the cult, and were in other ways severely affected by it.

  Just like a person who's been affected by cancer may take up a cancer cause, so many of us have taken up an anti-Watchtower cause. Statistically, it may not be the most efficient use of our time. But emotionally -- humanly -- it's fulfilling.

  Can it be taken too far? Yep. But barring the extremes, I don't see anything wrong with a person investing some of themselves in efforts to prevent the organization that damaged them from damaging others.

  Question for you: Have you read "Crisis of Conscience"?

  Dave
• 

  happehanna

  As you say yourself you did not develop the social skills.

  Hence your lack of empathy for others and the trauma involved of a whole life not just 18 years has brought by the workings of the JW sect
• 

  JamesWind

  Dave, Im sorry but there is nothing here that tells me this is all that unusual. Honestly, the Republican party is far more brain washed and displays more borg behavior than the Witnesses. And on a much much great scale. How else do you explain someone with a 4th grade education is president? Nearly 25K American soldiers have been maimed or killed in the past 6 years. Do you spend equal amounts of time slamming the Republican party?

  You can't seriously believe that. It's as much a "personal decision" as fornication, smoking, and idolatry is. JW's are told they will displease Jehovah -- put their eternal lives at risk -- over this issue. It is not in any way a "personal decision".

  Honestly this is the most bizarre thing Ive read all night. You dont believe that fornication, smoking and idolatry are personal decisions? You honestly believe that having sex with someone or smoking a cigarette is beyond your control? Huh?

  I'm glad you've broken free from cult thinking. For you, everything is a personal decision, as well it should be. But for them, it's absolutely nothing of the sort. For the mindless drones of the bOrg, it is an order from God Almighty, and they ignore it at their eternal peril.

  So if they are so brain washed that they are beyond reason what makes you think anything you say here will effect any change? If they are as mindless as you believe, it wont.
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  >>In 18 years this is my first experience with a group of people who's entire focus in developing a community was to slam the Witnesses.

  Perhaps you haven't looked around very much? We do much more than "slam the witnesses". There is plenty of slamming, don't get me wrong. But there's more to be had here than just that.

  Sometimes you'll hear people talk about going from "ex-JW's" to "ex-ex-JW's". They mean they've moved from a point where they no longer viewed the Watchtower as the all-good "mother organization", to a point where they viewed the Watchtower as wholly irrelevant. Or didn't view it at all.

  Needless to say, the people you see regularly posting would be a set that self-select as "ex-JW's".

  Dave
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  >>Nearly 25K American soldiers have been maimed or killed in the past 6 years. Do you spend equal amounts of time slamming the Republican party?

  Yep. :-) Check out the "Politics" section.

  >>Honestly this is the most bizarre thing Ive read all night. You dont believe that fornication, smoking and idolatry are personal decisions? You honestly believe that having sex with someone or smoking a cigarette is beyond your control? Huh?

  :-) No, obviously these things ARE personal decisions. Or rather, they SHOULD be. But for a JW, they aren't. Were you REALLY a baptized, meeting-attending, door-to-door-ministry Jehovah's Witness?

  >>So if they are so brain washed that they are beyond reason what makes you think anything you say here will effect any change? If they are as mindless as you believe, it wont.

  Well, you've kind of hit upon the dilemma. You're right. There's little that can said to "wake them up". It sounds as if you may have spent some time on political boards, and perhaps discussed how the "sheeple" just "baaa, baaa" whenever Bush or one of his crew says something. You may have asked, "Why don't people GET it? How can they be so BLIND?" It's the same deal with JW's. Except instead of American Exceptionalism, their cult is called "Watchtower". And instead of "My Country, right or wrong", it's "My God, right or wrong".

  Dave
• 

  JamesWind

  But there is another segment (in my experience, large, if not the majority) that truly want to "please Jehovah". It isn't about "rules", it's about pleasing their heavenly father. Except they let the Watchtower tell them what's pleasing and what isn't. He hates "misuse" of blood, so they don't "misuse" it and choose to die instead. What will or won't "get you disfellowshipped" is irrelevant.

  People have died for things they believed in since the beginning of time. It could be a political cause, ethical, moral, family, etc. When someone dies for something they believe in what makes it your right to cheapen their sacrifice by suggesting it was a stupid sacrifice. Why not celebrate their sacrifice, even if you dont believe in the cause, as a way of respecting that person and their convictions?

  I must admit that there's another issue here. We've all been personally affected by the Watchtower. Some of us (not me) have lost loved ones to the blood issue, to suicide brought on by the effects of the cult, and were in other ways severely affected by it.

  I can absolute respect those that are struggling to understand a suicide brought on by the organization. For those people, you can disregard all my posts.

  Just like a person who's been affected by cancer may take up a cancer cause, so many of us have taken up an anti-Watchtower cause. Statistically, it may not be the most efficient use of our time. But emotionally -- humanly -- it's fulfilling.

  How can dwelling on the hate be fulfilling? I think its like eating lots of twinkies. In the immediate it may feel good, but in the long run its just going to make you feel worse because of all the weight gain.

  Question for you: Have you read "Crisis of Conscience"?

  No, tonight is the first I've heard of it. Though I have briefly glanced through many similar type documents written about the Mormon church.
• 

  JamesWind

  Were you REALLY a baptized, meeting-attending, door-to-door-ministry Jehovah's Witness?

  Yes, I was baptized at 15 and pioneered every summer and for the 8 months prior to my leaving.
• 

  RisingEagle

  Especially when the truth hurts.

  "The truth" does indeed hurt. It hurts whenever a book publishing company decides it has the right to invade lives and take the place of people's need for God by using subterfuge, lies and threats. Since you were able to avoid this in your exit you should consider yourself blessed.

  Though my point still remains, why dwell on it to such extremes instead of just moving on?

  Everyone is in different stages of moving on, stick around and you'll see it. Every few weeks someone will make a post about how great this board has been in their personal 'healing' and they feel they can leave it behind. Some remain to educate others on many topics, and some develop friendships that only comes from understanding what it is to be an ex-witling.
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  James, you're a reasoned, balanced poster. You're very pleasant to discuss things with.

  >>People have died for things they believed in since the beginning of time. It could be a political cause, ethical, moral, family, etc. When someone dies for something they believe in what makes it your right to cheapen their sacrifice by suggesting it was a stupid sacrifice. Why not celebrate their sacrifice, even if you dont believe in the cause, as a way of respecting that person and their convictions?

  Hmmmm... Firstly, I don't celebrate anyone sacrificing their life without knowing why. The 9/11 hijackers (and for the sake of argument, let us assume they really existed and were hijackers) sacrificed their lives for a cause. I don't think it was a worthwhile cause, and I don't celebrate it. That's a sensational example, I admit, but the point is the same. The cause has to be worthy TO ME in order for me to celebrate it.

  Secondly, the cause should be real. The Bible really doesn't forbid blood transfusions. It just doesn't. The JW's say it does, but it doesn't. So the "cause" isn't real. These people are dying for nothing -- not a cause. They aren't fighting oppression, or freeing slaves, or doing anything at all, except perhaps strengthening the resolve of other JW's to do the same thing if it ever happens to them.

  >>How can dwelling on the hate be fulfilling? I think its like eating lots of twinkies. In the immediate it may feel good, but in the long run its just going to make you feel worse because of all the weight gain.

  This would be an example of taking it to an extreme. A person can do the same thing for any cause. If I do nothing all day but make and distribute pink ribbons in an effort to raise breast cancer awareness, to the neglect of my family, my job, my friends -- then I am damaging myself. But if I dedicate a weekend a month to it, is that over doing it?

  Moreover, stating that something is bad is not quite the same as "dwelling on the hate", is it? On JWD we discuss ways to approach a currently-believing spouse. We share tips on getting through mind-numbing meetings for those that still have to attend. We support people that are feeling alone because of being disfellowshipped. And we even help people that have never developed proper social skills because as JW's they didn't need to. We discuss ancillary topics -- religion in general, the Bible, cults, god, atheism, evolution, Intelligent Design. And then completely off the wall topics -- beer, movies, sex.

  Most of this is done out of love and appreciation for fellow humans, not out of hate for the Watchtower.

  >>"Crisis of Conscience"? No, tonight is the first I've heard of it.

  If you've been a JW, it's worth reading. Skip the first chapter, but the rest is quite gripping. It will mean less if you weren't a live-to-please-Jehovah type of JW. But it will still be valuable.

  Dave
• 

  ozziepost

  TROLL ALERT !!!

  "James Wind" registered today at 16:20 AEST

  First post began with these words: "Some of you people make me laugh. "

  Each of the (so far ) 14 posts today in the past four hours have been in similar vein including this thread.

  Folks, he/she is yanking your chain!

  Still, many miss scholar.......now, where is he ??