I dont understand the hate...

by JamesWind 79 Replies latest jw friends

  • JamesWind
    JamesWind

    Let me clarify, why cheapen the sacrifice of people you love? I'm sure many of the loved ones of those hijackers celebrated their sacrifice but personally I would genocide the entire region and start fresh. Here is an example you may be able to relate to. I had a very close friend named Wayne. He graduated early from high school so he could enlist in the marines. He was gung-ho about going to Afghanistan after 9/11 and then to Iraq when his division was redeployed. Personally I couldnt disagree more with the war in Iraq and think its a bunch of bullsheit. However, when he died I did not try and cheapen his sacrifice by suggesting to anyone that he died needless or for a "cause that isnt real." And do you honestly believe any of those young soldiers over there dying have any real idea of why they are dying? They dont.

    Most of this is done out of love and appreciation for fellow humans, not out of hate for the Watchtower.

    I think the term "most" might be overstating it based on a quick survey of the topics on these forums.

  • JamesWind
    JamesWind
    "James Wind" registered today at 16:20 AEST First post began with these words: "Some of you people make me laugh. " Each of the (so far ) 14 posts today in the past four hours have been in similar vein including this thread.

    Good work Captain Obvious. Another mystery solved.

  • RisingEagle
    RisingEagle

    Ozzie prolly a good call on your part. He seemed to argue for the sake of arguing.

    Ah well it's about time to start the fire so I can smoke the turkey. Now I just need to find some really big rolling papers.

  • yesidid
    yesidid

    Hi James,

    I must say you would have a lot more credibility if you actually knew about that of which you speak.

    Having a blood transfusion is a disfellowshipping offence. You didn't know that? .

    Obviously you didn't or you wouldn't have said this: "No one would be disfellowshiped for a blood transfusion."

    Remember you have been away a long time. Another thing you didn't know is that they don't call it disfellowshipping,

    they call it disassociation. However the results are the same, you are treated as dead by your family and previous "friends".

    The religion of your youth has become a much more controlling group and you seem not to have taken that into account.

    How could you. You didn't know! You have not been associating for what, twenty years?

    It may be a good idea if you caught up on what has happened in those two decades before you come here pontificating on what

    others should or should not do in circumstances you yourself have not experienced.

    BTW Welcome.

    yesidid

  • AlmostAtheist
    AlmostAtheist

    Despite Ozzie's point, this discussion is interesting to me. I like having my viewpoints challenged.

    >>Let me clarify, why cheapen the sacrifice of people you love? ... He was gung-ho about going to Afghanistan after 9/11 and then to Iraq when his division was redeployed. ... when he died I did not try and cheapen his sacrifice by suggesting to anyone that he died needless or for a "cause that isnt real."

    Some people picket the funerals of dead soldiers. Have you ever seen an ex-JW picketing the funeral of a dead JW over the blood issue? (And if you have -- and I wouldn't put it past some -- I'm sure you'd agree it's a ridiculously small minority)

    It's one thing to look a particular soldier's parents in the eye and say, "Your son died for nothing" and an entirely different thing to debate the merits of the war in an open forum. Without such debate, we'd all be mindless drones, doing whatever the gov't told us to. (Unlike now, when we... well, anyway....)

    Again though, JWD isn't about hating the Watchtower. Yes, there are several threads right now about the pedophile issue. But that's because there's the news story about it. Strike when the iron's hot and all that. But statistically, that is not what JWD is about.

    It's about supporting people, not tearing down an organization.

    Dave

  • Gary1914
    Gary1914
    But at the end of the day its still a personal decision. I have known witnesses that took transfusions when push came to shove and there were zero repercussions within the congregation. How many people die from other equally trivial decisions? Can you imagine that some people still refuse to wear seat belts despite all the evidence proving that the risk of fatality and serious injury is dramatically reduced by wearing one? How many children die from head injuries incurred while riding bikes? And yet when I was a kid I never saw one single kid wearing a helmet.

    Hi James, with reference to your post above, I cannot believe that you are so naive having once associated with jehovah's Witnesses. The fact is that taking blood for witnesses is not a "personal" decision. Where did you get that from? It is hammered into the minds and hearts of Jehovah's Witnesses that God will be pleased with them for refusing a transfusion, that death now from rejecting blood will mean live later on in a paradise earth. If there were no repercussions, do you think that so many people would willingly die, gladly give up their lives because they are taught that they will later live in a paradise earth.

    When people fail to put on their seat belts they don't believe that they are pleasing God by not doing so. They don't think that if they die they will one day live in a paradise earth. My brother is a District Overseer and the statistics are in, although not widely published. The rate of pedophiles in the organization is FOUR (4) times the rate it is in other small religions, comparatively speaking. One reason is that the organization failed to report these people because they did not want to "disparage Jehovah's name".

    I don't know what congregation you went to, but if you are saying that there are no repercussions from taking blood transfusions, you are just plain wrong. It really makes me upset that you would say such a thing. No repercussions, are you kidding! You take a blood transfusion and you are disfellowshipped. Since 2000, you have effectively disfellowshipped yourself if you take a transfusion. Before that time, you were hauled into a judicial committee to be disfellowshipped.

    There are many good people who are Jehovah's Witnesses, but you can never know for sure because the witnesses are programmed, taught and legislated to act like good people. You can never be sure what part comes from programming and what part is natural. There are studies and books that tell them how to act, how to greet their brothers, how to greet strangers in the Kingdom Hall, how to help one another, etc, etc.

    I think you really need to do further research into the witnesses, because for all your condemnation of this board, I can say that you really don't know what you are talking about and I mean that in the nicest way.

  • Gordy
    Gordy

    Jameswind wrote:

    But at the end of the day its still a personal decision. I have known witnesses that took transfusions when push came to shove and there were zero repercussions within the congregation.

    Maybe you can explain this to the family of the 22 yr old JW woman, who after giving birth to twins, refused a blood transfusion and died. That happened in England the other week.

    What do you tell her children "Mommy could have had blood, but she decided to die and leave you instead."

    Or why when I on deciding that the Watchtower was wrong in its teachings decided to leave, after 30 years as a JW. My JW wife and two JW daughters have been forbidden to have any contact with me over the last 6 years.

  • sweet pea
    sweet pea

    Thanks for calling BS on my post - nice touch! :-)

    Ok, so what about this situation - a friend of mine just diassociated himself because he is dying of cancer and needs to have regular white blood cell transfusions which 'currently' is not tolerated in the Organisation and is counted as a regular blood transfusion which apparently is breaking God's law (the Organisation conveniently forgets about Jesus breaking one of the 10 commandments to save a life..). So at a time when he needs his friends and family around the most he is treated as though he's dead already. A real loving brotherhood - weeding out the evil ones?

    I agree that an Organisation has the right to ask people to leave/cancel their membership if they are not playing by the rules but where they cross the line with human rights is the way they encourage people to shun each other which has been proved to cause lasting psychological harm to a person on a par with post traumatic stress disorder. Check it out on Wikipedia if you don't believe me.

    I have lost my best friends overnight, friends of the last 36 years - they will not answer my letters/emails/texts - it is as though I do not exist - all because I have a different opinion to them - this is not natural behaviour it is what the cult has done to them.

    With regards to a domestic abuse situation, if the woman continues to bad mouth the ex-husband because she knows he's still abusing others all the while giving the impression he's an attractive, loving, great guy, then she has every right to warn others or give support and advice to others that have been in her position.

    I do agree that we need to move on and create new, happy, successful lives but 7 months later I still hurt and being on this forum helps confirm I made the right decision to leave and I feel have been able to give help and support to others when they have needed it. I may leave here one day as many have done but for now this forum is a community I enjoy.

  • besty
    besty

    Hi JamesWind

    Welcome to JWD where everyone is welcome. I hope you stick around and get to know some of the characters on the board - I've had the privilege of meeting quite a few here in 'real' life.

    The original purpose of JWD was to create a place where current JW's in good standing could share ideas, hopes and thoughts WITHOUT fear of retribution from the WTS. This in itself should tell us everything we need to know about the WTS. Obviously since that original purpose JWD has become a place more for ex-JW's and those in the process of starting to doubt 'the Truth' or on the way out. I personally found JWD a great help as it let me see that others felt as I did.

    Perhaps you could explain one thing to me from your 1st post on this thread. You said that you had difficulty developing social skills which has had an ongoing effect throughout your life, yet you also said that you had maintained contact with hundreds of JW's over an extended period. I'm unclear about which of these statements is the most accurate - perhaps you can expand on that for me?

    All the best

    Paul

  • MsMcDucket
    MsMcDucket
    I do find it enjoyable when someone on the internet attempts to play amateur behavioral therapist.

    I couldn't help but respond to this one. And what are you doing???

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