still considering going back to meetings...

by oompa 64 Replies latest jw friends

  • Liberty
    Liberty

    I have enjoyed your posts oompa,

    You've recieved lots of opinions on this so I may overlap some of what's already been said but I thought I'd put my spin on it. This thearpist doesn't understand that going to a JW meeting is NOT like going to a mainstream church service. Main stream churches do not use services to control an individual the way cults do.

    I am an atheist but I went to a Baptist church with my then girlfriend (now wife) to make her happy early in our relationship but I felt no guilt or pressure from the services and the church expected nothing from me so a main stream church service is, at worst, just a waste of time. You well know JW meetings are far more intense and the foundations of guilt, mind control/independant thinking is BAD, Obey the FDS, type cult control are constant and the congregation will always expect more from you just because you are there.

    Meetings are always a stepping stone to more activity in the cult. In my opinion, you cannot remain a passive meeting goer in the Watch Tower system simply because it is not tolerated the same way you can easily remain a passive mainstream church goer for years and years.

    Do not go back to the meetings since it is so difficult to leave the cult in the first place. You will have recovery issues for years as it is and meetings will only make this worse. If you explain this to your therapist and they still think it is a reasonable concesssion to your wife I too would recommend a new therapist. Going to a Kingdom Hall is NOT like going to a mainstream church to make your wife happy as they are totally different things. It should be clear that one of the reasons you are in therapy is because of your cult involvement to begin with and you don't need any more abuse from the Watch Tower Society in the form of their brain washing meetings. It is not healthy. It would be just like an alcoholic being told that they should drink socially with their wife if it makes her happy. This is a clear case where your mental health needs to trump her "happiness" which is false anyway since she is clearly a cult victim also.

    Best of Luck to you

  • Mum
    Mum

    (((oompa)))

    Not so long ago it seems that you were pretty depressed. You have come a long way, and I hate to see you risk slipping back into that sorrow.

    Weigh the pros and cons very carefully. Will occasional meeting attendance give your wife false hope? It could be bad for her, too.

    I agree with those who say that your therapist does not appear to really understand that going to a JW meeting is a very different kettle of fish than going to any "normal" kind of meeting.

    Pulling for you,

    SandraC

  • sweetstuff
    sweetstuff

    Here is a narrative of what you will face should you go back to the meetings with your wife for her sake, according to the suggestions this "professional" gave you..

    Oompa shows up, nervously to the hall with Mrs. Oompa. Wondering how he will stomach sitting thru two hours of total crapola for her sake. They enter the hall and are greeted with more than a few stares, some friendly, some not so friendly, some downright, "look what the cat dragged in".

    Brother High and Mighty approachs Mr. and Mrs. Oompa, "So nice to see you hear Oompa, its been a while (little dig through in to guilt Mr.Oompa into feeling like crap). Mr. Oompa struggling over what to say, just says "Thanks". Mrs. Oompa glows with pride over the fact that Mr. Oompa is finally back at the hall. Sends some very confident smiles to the Elderettes, signalling she has matters now under control.

    Mr. Oompa and Mrs. Oompa look for a seat, Mr. Oompa desperately wants to sit in the backrow, but Mrs. Oompa is having none of that, she knows he is here now, trapped like an animal. She finds some former friends of Mr. Oompa and proceeds to sit down beside them, knowing that conversation will ensue before the meeting starts.

    Mr. Oompa's palms are already sweating with anxiety, wishing he was at home, but looking at his wife and seeing her happiness, he is reassured he is doing the right thing. Brother Good Weather Friend turns around and begins to talk to Mr. Oompa, "its so nice to see you, hey how about we get together next week and catch up?". At first Mr. Oompa is touched, until he thinks about how Brother Good Weather Friend has bothered to notice he exists until right now, no phone call, zip.

    The meeting begins to start, the opening talk is entitled, "Do you Put Jehovah's Kingdom First", Mr. Oompa rolls his eyes unaware that he is doing so, which gains him a stabbing hateful look from Mrs. Oompa. He tries his best to zone out what is being said from the platform while staring straight ahead, Mrs. Oompa's eyes on him every few moments to see if he is really paying attention and hoping it is sinking in, the spiritual food being served that is.

    Halfway thru the talk, Mr. Oompa thinks he is going to jump out of his chair and onto the platform screaming, wake up you morons to the entire crowd. He manages to restrain himself, barely and decides a bathroom break is in order. All eyes are on him as he walks towards the bathroom, he walks in and closes the door thinking, sigh, relief. No sooner does he exhale then Brother ImanAss walks in and shakes his hand, "So nice to see you Brother Oompa, I was talking with Brother High and Mighty before the meeting and Brother Hypocrite and we think it would be a good idea if we sat down with you and Sister Oompa, for a sheparding call, we are so very happy to see you here and want to encourage you. When would be a good time for you both?". Mr. Oompa feels like a deer caught in the headlights, he wants to say F U Brother ImanAss but thinking of his wife, mutters something about having to get back to him on when. Brother ImanAss, looks at Mr. Oompa, smiles that condesending smile he always did have and says, "No worries, we will be in touch to set something up, again, good to see you Brother Oompa".

    At this point, Mr. Oompa is looking for an exit like a sailor in a sinking sub, knowing he got himself into this jam, he sighs deeply and walks back to his seat. With a glaring look from Mrs. Oompa as if to say, what took you so long? He suffers thru the rest of the entire meeting, wishing he could be watching Nascar, Sailing, something, anything but listening to this.

    The meeting is finally over and the sense of relief Mr. Oompa feels is indescribable. Peace at last, he hurrys Mrs. Oompa out of the hall saying he doesn't feel well, as she reluctantly goes along, but before he is in the clear, Brother Hypocrite stops them both and mentions the sheparding call to Mrs. Oompa who thinks its a wonderful idea and invites them around for the next evening. Mr. Oompa feels helpless to say anything and utterly defeated.

    The entire way home in the car Mrs. Oompa, totally estatic, talks about spiritual things, renewed in her faith that her husband will come around. Mr. Oompa nearly drives the car into the ditch, on purpose.

    Now, I would say that's a pretty accurate description of how things could go and probably would. See my point Dear Oompa? (Hugs)

  • oompa
    oompa
    Sweetstuff : Halfway thru the talk, Mr. Oompa thinks he is going to jump out of his chair and onto the platform screaming, wake up you morons to the entire crowd. He manages to restrain himself, barely and decides a bathroom break is in order.

    Sweetstuff....I'll take your hugs! This part of your post was right too. Aside from that, please believe me...I do have a backbone. If anyone said "It's been a long time"....I would say "not nearly long enough." I have said no to sheperding calls before....just "not right now..thank you" so NBD. I am still trying to weigh the airsickness I would feel, against any possible benefit it could really bring to my wife. A few posters here have said going some helped get their wife out....I don't want her to dig in deeper and become MORE entrenched if I stay AWOL.

    So where are all the husbands or wives who got their partner out by staying totally away????..............oompa

  • ronin1
    ronin1

    Gilberto:

    I agree. I was the first the be against the things going on in the cong and org. My husband knew my concerns and feelings, but we still went to the meetings and assemblies together.

    Eventually my husband saw the real org for what it was and decided it wasn't for him also. He removed himself as a MS, we both removed ourselves from working on the quick build committes, stopped field service and aux pioneering. So now we are both actually faders and out and only sometimes go to the meetings and an occassional assembly day just to keep informed.

    No harm done.

    Ronin1

  • sweetstuff
    sweetstuff

    Sweetstuff....I'll take your hugs! This part of your post was right too. Aside from that, please believe me...I do have a backbone. If anyone said "It's been a long time"....I would say "not nearly long enough." I have said no to sheperding calls before....just "not right now..thank you" so NBD. I am still trying to weigh the airsickness I would feel, against any possible benefit it could really bring to my wife. A few posters here have said going some helped get their wife out....I don't want her to dig in deeper and become MORE entrenched if I stay AWOL.

    So where are all the husbands or wives who got their partner out by staying totally away????..............oompa

    Ok, this is how I see it, IMO. You have already been very clear with your wife, that you love her, want your marriage, and made your stand to her regarding the org. Things are rocky I take it, yet, she is still there, right? Meaning, she does love you Oompa, enough to stay with you, even though you have been very clear how you feel. I think going back to the meetings, would only give her a false hope and widen the gap between you two if you decided you just cannot take it anymore. It's like giving a baby candy and saying, ahh ahhh, nope you can't have it.

    You would be leading her to a false conclusion and hope that you might come around to the "truth". Is that what you want to base your marriage on? What will happen when she is so happy that you are attending, yet sees you don't really want to and in fact may say things to the brothers that cause her alot of embrasessment? If you were to attend the meeting and did respond to the elders by saying, "not long enough". Who do you think will feel the pressure by the congregation? Her. Who do you think will start to be shunned in a round about way? Her. Mark my words and I say this as a younger person, take it for what you will.

    She will start to be treated crappy if you don't have the right "attitude" when you attend. Which will cause her to feel pressured, in turn, leading her to pressure you. This is a keg bomb you are sitting on IMO. I remember when my husband was not attending, and I was, and you know something, looking back, this is exactly what happened between us, I felt frustration and anger towards him, because I was getting the "crap" for him not being there, or attending and looking like he would rather be somewhere else. I look back now and realize that it was probably one of the downfalls of our marriage, without me even realizing it.

    I remember all too well, going to the hall and having elders ask me where my husband was, feeling put completely on the spot and thinking, great, here we go again, make an excuse. Had he suddenly started attending and making smart remarks towards the elders, or people who said "nice to see you", I know for a fact, it would have lead to a fight in the car on the way home, anger and frustration. It would have made things worse, of that I am sure. Because at that time, I still believed it was the "truth" and was desperately trying to get my husband to do something about it. So, while I have not been in your exact position, I have been a very similar one to your wife and I think the only way anything positive could come of it, is if you can bow and cower to the brothers and pretend you really want to be there.

    Anything less than that, will only dig that wall between you and her even deeper. For those who have attended and helped get their spouse out that way, perhaps they are of a different make-up in personality, not in a bad way, but able to mask how they truly feel very well. Question is, can you do that? Can you "suck it up" per say and smile as though their words are the sweetest thing you have heard? Keep in mind that by going back with an attitude, of I am doing this for you honey yet not giving the elders the "respect" gag, they require...

    They could decide to DF you, its a possibility. Right now, you have successfully faded, if they ask to meet with you and you say, no way, show contempt for them, they could easily turn on you so quickly your head will spin. You really need to think about this as well, before making a decision you yourself can't live with.

    I feel for anyone in this situation, I really do. But I know for myself, now that I know what a load of crap it is, I couldn't ever walk back into a hall for anyone, even a spouse. There are other ways to save your marriage and there are others who have completely stopped attending and maintained their marriages. And you can't assume that if you went back that you would get your "wife" out. She may never leave. That is reality. ((Hugs)) I know I couldn't live a half-life for 5 or 10 years in the hopes that perhaps my spouse may leave at some point. It just isn't in me. If it is for you, more power to you, if it isn't, then really think about what you are considering carefully.

  • Gringa
    Gringa

    My goodness, this is a hard post for me to write - Miss Big Mouth - front and center.....but I can't let this go by without expressing my own thoughts which do mirror some of the other posters. I truly have been thinking of this thread since last night......so, understand that I am coming to you out of love.....

    so, here it goes..........

    MY GOD, MAN! WHAT ARE YOU THINKING!?!

    OK, now that I have that out of the way, let me proceed.... and please read with an open heart..... even after my outburst, PLEASE!

    I know you love your family deeply. I understand that. Most all of us have been in the same situation. Choices to make, our own sanity and happiness verses making those around us happy. If we all where to foresake our own happiness and sanity for others, we all would be sitting in the Kingdom Hall to this day. We made BIG choices that isolated most of us from our familes FOREVER. These choices were not made on a whim - they were made for our own survival, mentally. It is not an easy journey. How can it be? I lost MY ENTIRE FAMILY for years. I had nothing left after my personal decision to run from the "truth". NO family, NO friends - nothing, totally alone in this world. I tell you this, because I get the feeling you think we don't understand your position.

    You are going to a therapist for a reason - that reason is your own business and none of mine. But, I would like you to ask yourself WHY are you going there? are you trying to repair YEARS AND YEARS of brainwashing and guilt that has been laid on your "only human" shoulders? Once you answer the WHY you are in therapy to overcome what mental difficulties you are having - then you need to ask yourself this: What roll did the JW and the KH play in my personal problems today that I feel the need to get mental health help with? Once you answer those questions, then you are in a better place to view if the KH is really a place you should be.

    Now, I need to mirror some others here because the same thoughts crossed my mind.

    1) Those "friends" you want to see are not truly your friends. They are only your friends if you BELIEVE. Once your true self "comes out" to them, you will be dropped like a hot potato. Do yourself a favor and accept the fact, that, yes, they are good people, and remember them in that light but do not expect them to continue to be the people you thought they were. Move on before you get REALLY hurt. Protect yourself.

    2) When the congregation sees the seats filled, it continues to feed their belief that they are in the "truth". They do not see what is in your heart and they assume that you are there because you still believe. I could not in good conscience, especially now that the light has shown on their protection of the most vile and disgusting humans to walk the earth - child molesters - sit there and fill the seats. You are in essence supporting them and those practices. I, for one, will never walk into a KH again, not for a funeral, a wedding, a memorial or any other reason. Thus, meaning, I will miss my own mother's funeral when her time comes. This is not a decision I take lightly or easily.

    Please, I do not want to add to your guilt. I am afraid that my comments are doing just that. I just want to give you food for thought and ultimately, you need to make your own decision. But, remember, this is FAR MORE that spending time with your wife, you can do that any other time you want, this is an excuse. Once you come to terms with that, I know you will make the right decision FOR YOU.

    I wish you the very best, no matter what you do. Please continue to come here and do not feel that I will judge you. We have all walked this path and we all know how very difficult and rocky that path is. And remember, one final thought, you have to love people for WHO they are, you should never hold on to hope that you can CHANGE someone. You need to continue in this marriage, knowing FULL WELL, that your wife may NEVER leave the "faith". Can you accpet that? If you can, then you will start to heal.

    In love and peace and kindness,

    Gringa.

  • sweetstuff
    sweetstuff

    Yeah, what Gringa said. High five Gringa and a big hug, I hear you on the never attending even for a funeral thing, I'm right here with you girl!

  • Gringa
    Gringa

    Sweetstuff - great post. I was typing and talking on the phone and didn't see your post until after I posted mne.

    You brought up points that I also wanted to make but felt I was already too wordy.

    From a child's perspective - I was 10.

    My father left the "truth" when I was a faithful youngster. He eventually was DF. My mother endured EXACTLY what you spoke of and so did I, to a lesser degree. The fights before / after the meeting, her disappointment because he would go once in a while and when he didn't attend all the meetings, all hell broke out. The constant questions of her at the meetings from the brothers - his attendance to some of the meetings only continued the questions to her/me and drug them out for her/me for years. It would have been better for her/me if he just had stopped going and faded out. I can honestly say, this was one of the most diffucult times in my entire life. The shame I felt is beyond words in the English language. My parents fighting all the time and the guilt I felt at my fathers spurratic attendence placed on me by the brothers and sisters......it was horrible, to say the least. I wanted my parents to divorce and stop the insanity - I hated my childhood, it was robbed from me.

    My father finally ran away from all of us and I have never seen him since. He did what he had to do 40 years ago. Abandon all of us for himself. I am sure it has been a most difficult life for him.

  • lawrence
    lawrence

    sweetstuff and gringa - great posts!

    oompa - you'd do better with a dog than that therapist (most therapists). Run, stay away - run for YOUR life! NEVER visit, NEVER STAY! RUN!

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