God is patient

by freedomfighter 53 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Gopher

  If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

  What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.

  Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

  So God assists rape and plunder.

  "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

  So God here approves the killing of women and children. And here:

  "You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

  If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)

  So God will even kill the CHILDREN of sinners.

  Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

  You get the point.

  There are many more examples of the evilness of the Israelite God. Source: http://www.evilbible.com
• 

  R.Crusoe

  If you were as God and knew you were around forever anyhow, it would be part of your instinct to be patient because you do not have to do certain things before a certain age etc. All human dysfunction arises from deadlines that are expected of each of us and by us of ourselves but then breached by one thing or another.
• 

  Perry

  But tell me about the innocent children that suffer.

  This question cannot be logically asked because the premise is wrong.

  Ps. 58:3 - The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies - KJV

  We can thank our father Adam for the sentence of death that we are all under. Thankfully, that same God who demands justice directed his righteous wrath towards his own being when he incarnated himself and took the punishment rightly reserved for us.

  2 Cor. 5: 21- For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

  1 Cor. 11:24 - And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

  Col. 1: 14 - In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

  Is. 53:5 - But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

  The WT taught us that somehow were were going to all escape death and march right on into the New System. The reality is much grimmer. We are not getting out of this place alive.

  Hebrews 9:27 - "it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment"

  God has chosen a method of righting the wrongs. It might not be the way I would do it; but then again I'm not infinite, the First and the Last.... seeing the beginning and the end. Personally, I added it all up and decided to ask Jesus to pay my debt that will be called for payment on Judgment day. He agreed.
• 

  Perry

  Gopher asks:

  What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.

  Here you assume God is a lunatic and that a rape has occurred. Let me show you another far older instance of asking the right question based on a lying premise:

  "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"

  This certainly seems like a reasonable question since it could cause starvation and a slow horrifying death. But this question should have never been asked. Why? Because just a few scriptures earlier we have the actual words of God accurately recorded:

  "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:"

  Does it makes sense to you how easily any of us can be deceived? I reccommend that you research your bible translation before you quote "God". If you do not, you might find yourself in the frightful position of listening to demons masquerade as God.

  If I may make a reccommendation:

  http://www.av1611.org/kjv/fight.html#fight8
• 

  Anti-Christ

  This question cannot be logically asked because the premise is wrong.

  Ps. 58:3 - The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies - KJV

  We can thank our father Adam for the sentence of death that we are all under. Thankfully, that same God who demands justice directed his righteous wrath towards his own being when he incarnated himself and took the punishment rightly reserved for us.

  Okay let me rephrase my question. Seeing that we are all guilty of being born and you would have the power to end the suffering of a child would you?

  One more thing. The punishment of Adam and Eve was death because THEY chose to disobey ,according to your holy book, but we did not chose any thing and we still suffer the consequence, how is that justice?
• 

  funkyderek

  But tell me about the innocent children that suffer.

  This question cannot be logically asked because the premise is wrong.

  Ps. 58:3 - The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies - KJV

  Let's try to unravel what Perry is saying here. It may seem that he couldn't possibly mean what he appears to, namely that children who suffer from leukemia or who are raped or murdered actually deserve such treatment. But anyone familiar with Perry's twisted sense of morality will know that, regrettably, this is indeed what he is saying. Further, although he believes in an omnipotent creator, he does not charge this being with any responsibility towards his creation - indeed, he seems to believe that the creator is obligated not to prevent such horrendous suffering. And just in case you thought it couldn't get any worse, he believes that this suffering will not end on death but God will actively continue what previously he had merely passively allowed, and that he will never allow an end to this torture.

  We can thank our father Adam for the sentence of death that we are all under.

  While the more enlightened among us balk at the idea that people - including very young children - should be punished for the trivial misdeeds of a distant ancestor, Perry really believes that all the world's suffering was caused by one ancient act of scrumping, and what's more, that such a situation is fair and just.

  Thankfully, that same God who demands justice directed his righteous wrath towards his own being when he incarnated himself and took the punishment rightly reserved for us.

  In Perry's world, the omnipotent and unlimited deity who chose to punish all of humanity because of a single act of disobedience by one human doesn't really want anyone to suffer. But his own sense of jmaustice - as vehemently nasty as Perry's - doesn't allow him simply to not punish and torture his creation for all eternity. Instead, he pretended to be a human, and manipulated people and events to have himself sentenced to death, whereby he pretended to die and then pretended to come back to life, simply so that he could allow himself not to torture anyone who managed to believe this absurd fairy-tale.

  God has chosen a method of righting the wrongs. It might not be the way I would do it; but then again I'm not infinite, the First and the Last.... seeing the beginning and the end.

  Perhaps there's a shred of hope for Perry here. His innate morality is likely rebelling against the horrendous injustices perpetrated by his god. Unfortunately, instead of dismissing the vindictive war-god as the invention of primitive tribes, he assumes that it is he who is lacking in understanding, that although this being seems to be among the most malevolent entities ever imagined, it must in fact have a good reason for causing unending suffering.

  Personally, I added it all up and decided to ask Jesus to pay my debt that will be called for payment on Judgment day. He agreed.

  Of course he didn't really, but Perry's fear of the pernicious deity he worships is such that he will do anything he can to avoid the eternal torture he thinks he deserves due to the mere accident of his existence.

  Perry's not stupid. He's intelligent enough to understand that a truly omnipotent being can have whatever it wants, and that if there truly are the souls of millions of children writhing in hell, it is because his god wants them to be there. That he believes in such a being without a shred of evidence is indicative of a lack of reasoning ability, understandable in a culture where such beliefs are commonplace. That he actively worships such an entity shows what I hope is merely a lack of moral courage on his part, again unfortunately all too understandable given how much he must fear the interminable misery he believes may await him.

  We should be wary of Perry and his ilk who, although thankfully in decline in much of the world, can still be found in large numbers clinging tenaciously to their Bronze Age myths and, more worringly still, Bronze Age morality. Anybody who believes that the god they worship wants or needs to torture children should be a cause for concern among rational people. They believe they are made in the image of their god, it should not surprise us if they try to emulate his malignity.
• 

  Perry

  but we did not chose any thing

  First of all, thank you for only bringing up one or two points at a time. There is a whole disseration embodied in your words above. Just a couple of points though:

  1. I suppose that you chose certain characteristics to aspire to as a human being? Can you actually do the things you bind yourself to? Many of the things you want to be are not just aspirations to God, they are his righteous laws. Laws without punishment are not laws in any practical sense are they? The statement of fact is not whether or not we chose anything, but the fact that we cannot obey God or even our own consciences for that matter. We are slaves to sin.

  2. How do you determine right from wrong? This is the ultimate question for man.

  The way I see it is that either God could do away with his laws, thereby forfeiting his Godship or; he could absorb the punishment we deserve onto his own being. I mean at what point should have God preventing suffering? Today, yesterday? Should he have prevented Cain from killing Able? Should he have prevented Even from disobeying so he could avoid punishing her? Is there freedom in preventing "wrong" choices.

  Where people go wrong is by putting God on trial. He is infinite, and unique... not like us ...a "First Cause". Our understanding is by necessity limited. What is not limited, is our ability to ascertain whether or not we've broken God's laws or even our own lofty standards we've chosen for ourselves and what that outcome was. If a person starts with his or her self and asks how things are working out for themselves without God, it will eventually lead them to the cross.
• 

  Anti-Christ

  Where people go wrong is by putting God on trial.

  I think it's necessary to put peoples vision of god on trial. If we don't then you can be misled into believing any absurdity. If there is a god like being that created us with the ability to reason and our reason is telling us that a particular way of seeing this god is messed up or illogical then maybe this vision of god is not the right one. Now if our ability to understand, judge or that our morality is flawed for some reason then almost any version of god can be right.
• 

  Perry

  "our reason is telling us that a particular way of seeing this god is messed up or illogical then maybe this vision of god is not the right one."----Or, possibly your logic is working just fine, just your premise is wrong. If you see yourself as an enemy of God.....doomed from the womb...unable to even enact your own character aspirations much less God's, then you'll see that you (and me) are perversions of the masters of our character that we were meant to be. Then, in our broken state we judge others for the same character flaws (sins) that we have. Without God, and certainly at different levels, all our species can be ...is lying hypocrits. Millions of Christians will testify that God saved them not only from his own coming judgement, but from themselves as well through the re-birth. I certainly can.
• 

  Anti-Christ

  unable to even enact your own character aspirations much less God's, then you'll see that you (and me) are perversions of the masters of our character that we were meant to be. Then, in our broken state we judge others for the same character flaws (sins) that we have. Without God, and certainly at different levels, all our species can be ...is lying hypocrits. Millions of Christians will testify that God saved them not only from his own coming judgement, but from themselves as well through the re-birth. I certainly can.

  I don't consider myself to be "flawed" I am like everything else in this universe, I am evolving and adapting to my environment. I am a product of genetics and my environment. Sin is for me an invention to make people feel guilty it was used to control the masses. The fact that millions of people can testify to being saved by this god does not make it more probable then every other religious claim. Seriously I am happy that this kind of philosophy has brought you peace but for me it does not and it can not, I find peace with a different philosophy. Thank you for taking the time to explain.