God is patient

by freedomfighter 53 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Satanus

  I have a potatoe that is very patient.
  
  S
• 

  Gopher

  FreedomFighter,

  Having just recently leaving the JW's i have many adjustments to make with my thinking. Yes, i have a brain that i may use now!

  Congratulations. I remember first leaving the JW's, and it is quite an adjustment indeed. I went through a lot of phases and learned much more than I expected, because I was open to it (and you seem to be open as well).

  At this time ALL organised religion is repulsive to me. It puts humans in a position of power which is usually abused.

  This was one of my first learnings after deciding not to go back to the JW's. I had heard enough preaching, and had done enough. I saw that most religion seemed to be 'man dominating man to his injury'.

  So I began to question everything I had ever learned about religion and philosophy. That even included questioning the credentials of the God of the Bible. Was he really the kind, loving person that his marketers told us he is? Did he even exist? These are valid questions, and it takes some time to sit down and examine them.
• 

  Perry

  I have tried to understand the reason that God permits suffering, and, it all comes down to this...

  God is too powerful to give consideration to fairness.

  You do not want God's fairness, believe me. The bible correlates understanding with fear: Ps 111:10 - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever. Pr 1:7 - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Pr 1:29 - For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: Pr 2:5 - Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God. Having said that, we are never to walk or live in fear alone. Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied. The unregenerate do not have the Holy Spirit to comfort them. And so, because fear is a sometimes destructive emotion they tend to suppress it or somtimes try and conqueor it through anger. Anger makes a person feel in control....regardless of how irrational. Godly fear and repentance must be granted. Now, why would a person want to fear the Lord? The same reason the wreckless driver eventually finds good in wanting to fear the police..... punishment. It is through punishent that we learn to fear and begin to learn moral truth.....The ultimate understanding is tied up with the bloody event of the cross. He wanted to come down from that cross, he was taunted to come down from that cross, but he Did Not come down from that cross until "It is finished" He deflected the brunt force of the punishment due our species and bore the sins of the world there. If a person will take some time to contemplate human nature and suffering and correlate that fact with the bloody spectacle of an infinite God becoming flesh and submitting to the unholy condemnation of his creatures, that person will eventually come to the conclusion that we are all guilty of crucifying our Creator. We do not want him. We may want him on our fireplace mantle, or in a box to be called on like a Genie, or in the form of a governing body of other fallible men....but we are incapable of wanting all of HIM. We are the ones who shoved that crown of thorns down on his head, we are the ones who shoved that spear into the side of He that knew no sin. After suffering and being murdered at the hands of not only gentiles but his own covenant people He pronounces his judgment on fallen mankind: What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

  19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

  We are a condemmed race .... every man, woman and child. However God offers us the opportunity to leave or family of men and and become sons and daughters of God. From the depths of iniquity, God is raising a super race "higher than the angles" called the Elect. But in our degenerancy, we reject his offer even now. Instead, we try and convict God by saying he should coercievly prevent ourselves from sinning and harming ourselves and others. We never stop and think what a world would be like if in an invisible wall magically appeared every time we reached for a cigarette or that 3rd glass of wine. Ridiculous. People are not in need not of more external controls. There is WAY to much of that already, yet some claim to want more! People need an an internal mechanism for balance and love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, etc. But God's offer isn't good enough, we want to do those things ourselves and let God out of his box only when we fail. It doesn't work that way. That is why we must be born again and be inhabited by the Spirit of God. Yes, there is great suffering in this world. But, we're just passing through. This is not our home or destination: Luke 16 - ...and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented Gods view of his sons and daughters are opposite of how we generally judge people in this world. For God, the first will be last and the last first. Those that suffered the most in this world will be eternally comforted. The real problem is for those that are more like the rich man ...men who in this life seek "justice" rather than mercy like Lazarus.
• 

  Perry

  In your illustration of the speeding ticket and fine,

  Jesus paid the fine but the accountant did not credit the account.

  Oh it's credited alright, I think the clerk is waiting for a signature before in can be drawn on.
• 

  funkyderek

  Reflecting on this thread, I began to feel a little sorry for Perry. Like a battered wife begging forgiveness from an angry husband for imagined wrongdoings, Perry makes excuses for the abusive behaviour of his god. It's not God's fault he's decided to torture us, it's our fault for being born degenerate. Perry thinks that by kow-towing to this monster, we can appease him and he won't feel the need to make us suffer for all eternity.

  I feel pity for the woman who stays in an abusive marriage even though she's partly to blame for her predicament. It's much harder to feel pity for Perry as the abuser he seeks so desperately to appease is an imaginary one. It must be horrible to have no self-esteem and live in a state of fear, but it's Perry's choice and until he decides to "divorce" his abuser, there's not much we can do for him.
• 

  eclipse

  We are a condemmed race .... every man, woman and child. However God offers us the opportunity to leave or family of men and and become sons and daughters of God. From the depths of iniquity, God is raising a super race "higher than the angles" called the Elect. But in our degenerancy, we reject his offer even now. Instead, we try and convict God by saying he should coercievly prevent ourselves from sinning and harming ourselves and others. We never stop and think what a world would be like if in an invisible wall magically appeared every time we reached for a cigarette or that 3rd glass of wine. Ridiculous.

  Ridiculous is right!

  Funny that you should choose pathetic small sins that mean NOTHING. Why did you not choose 'sins' that actually do great harm, like god stopping a perverted pedophile from reaching out and molesting a defenceless 2 year old child? (He never has prevented child abuse) (God glorifies baby killing) Or a sadistic serial killer from planning his attack on a family or a victim that has walked unwittingly into his line of sight? There is no wall, there is no God preventing REAL EVIL. He just watches and eats popcorn like the spectator that god is. Evil, Perry, is someone who abducts your precious 2 1/2 year old child, rapes them for hours, then kills them, and you have no idea until you get a box delivered with your child's head contained within. That's evil. Now you can call down evil upon the person who has done this to your child. NOW you have GOOD REASON to speak about evil. The pathetic excuses for sins you have mentioned are not evil, it's our state of being that we cannot help, that was put upon us by your loving hateful god according to scripture. Please stop being a judgemental jerk and calling us evil when you speak about ''sin'' that causes no harm to anyone.

  The god of the Bible is pathetic, weak or dead.

  He doesn't stop evil because He either CANNOT, or willfully chooses NOT to stop it.. Either way, God is not a god deserving of any ''fear'' or worship. As you said, ''we don't want to see god's fairness''...well, duh, of course not, since when have we ever seen a fair christian god? Never.
• 

  erynw

  We never stop and think what a world would be like if in an invisible wall magically appeared every time we reached for a cigarette or that 3rd glass of wine. Ridiculous.

  I'm just wondering, what exactly do you think heaven is like?
• 

  funkyderek

  eclipse:

  There is no wall, there is no God preventing REAL EVIL. He just watches and eats popcorn like the spectator that god is. Evil, Perry, is someone who abducts your precious 2 1/2 year old child, rapes them for hours, then kills them, and you have no idea until you get a box delivered with your child's head contained within.

  That example doesn't really do justice to just how reprehensible Perry's philosophy actually is. While the parents of that unfortunate child may take a modicum of solace in knowing that their child's suffering is at least over, Perry's worldview provides no such relief. The instant that the child breathes its last, its immortal soul is whisked off to hell to be tortured for eternity. If the child begs for mercy, no doubt Perry's god will answer: "Well, you should have thought of that before someone stole some fruit thousands of years ago". It's really very difficult for normal people to understand just how sick and twisted Perry's sense of justice is but it's important that we realise we're not dealing with a rational humane person here.
• 

  Satanus

  'I'm just wondering, what exactly do you think heaven is like?'
  
  Only two glasses of wine. The only smoke that you can inhale is incense. The only music allowed is angels singing bach, mozart and pahelbel. No pets. No sex. Only one person per bed. No swearing. No saturated fats. No salt. ;)
  
  S
• 

  Perry

  Gotta go folks.... There is always a time when some people must agree to disagree.

  For those of you who have said in your heart that the universe is self-existing, I reccommend Anti-Christ's position as an anarchist. There really is no other intellectually honest position since there is no basis for authority.

  For those that are undecided about Christ... no one can make this decision for you. You don't need me or the Pope or the WT or the Southern Baptist Convention. Church won't save you and neither will your own efforts to be good. Indecision won't save you either....might as well count your voices with those that declared, "we have no King but Caesar"

  Only sincerely asking Jesus to take your place on that cross will save. The price he paid was so high that it a very precious thing when someone asks for mercy.