"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character...

by digderidoo 261 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  hillary_step

  Snowbird,

  Many of us do not believe the Bible because we remember what it contains Snowbird, not because we are ignorant of its contents.

  HS

  Conversely, many of us do believe the Bible despite what it contains.

  I think this is the point that FunkyDerek is trying to make, that is, that in believing as an article of Faith, accepting and defending the principle behind the Old Testamament and its moments of barbarous cruelty and genocide, you are in actual fact condoning it.

  Surely, the other alternatives left to you is that you accept the parts of the OT that suit your view of God as being from God, but reject the features of those books that appear not to fit in with your view of God, or that the OT is a book of myths, mixed with fables, moral poems, half-truths, and manipulated history.

  Cheers - HS
• 

  quietlyleaving

  HS

  I think this is the point that FunkyDerek is trying to make, that is, that in believing as an article of Faith, accepting and defending the principle behind the Old Testamament and its moments of barbarous cruelty and genocide, you are in actual fact condoning it.

  Surely, the other alternatives left to you is that you accept the parts of the OT that suit your view of God as being from God, but reject the features of those books that appear not to fit in with your view of God, or that the OT is a book of myths, mixed with fables, moral poems, half-truths, and mainpulated history.

  only 2 choices HS?
• 

  hillary_step

  Quietly,

  only 2 choices HS?

  In the framework of this discussion with Snowbird, I see only these two. What did you have in mind?

  HS
• 

  quietlyleaving

  HS

  we have snowbirds own choice
• 

  snowbird

  I accept it all. If there have been any embellishments, subtractions, lies, etc., I have faith that everything will be straightened out in due time.

  Sylvia
• 

  inkling

  I accept it all. If there have been any embellishments, subtractions, lies, etc., I have faith that everything will be straightened out in due time.

  Sylvia

  Absolutely. We should all just Trust In Jehovah and Display A Waiting Attitude, Right? [inkling]
• 

  quietlyleaving

  snowbird I was reading something interesting today about the different ways people see the bible or instance. The insiders - they like, yourself have strong faith the bible as God's word. The outsiders, imo, HS (if he does not mind me saying so - although he was an insider once) and then those who look at the contextualist history. Fascinating stuff.
• 

  hillary_step

  Quietly,

  Snowbird's choice has *already* been acknowledged. The alternatives I suggested are the only choices left to her apart from the one that we are discussing, that is, the choice that the OT is an inspired history of 'Gods people'.

  I think this is the point that FunkyDerek is trying to make, that is, that in believing as an article of Faith, accepting and defending the principle behind the Old Testamament and its moments of barbarous cruelty and genocide, you are in actual fact condoning it.

  Surely, the other alternatives left to you is that you accept the parts of the OT that suit your view of God as being from God, but reject the features of those books that appear not to fit in with your view of God, or that the OT is a book of myths, mixed with fables, moral poems, half-truths, and manipulated history.

  Please note the first paragraph, this is the 'choice' which FunkyDerek has analysed.

  The point that we are trying to get Snowbird to see, is that in accepting the OT as an article of faith means that you cannot escape condoning the behavior of the genocide that "gods people' enacted at the behest, according to the 'inspired' Word of their Maker.

  Apart from this position, there are only two tenable alternatives. I trust that this clarifies the matter.

  HS
• 

  snowbird

  Absolutely. We should all just Trust In Jehovah and Display A Waiting Attitude , Right? [inkling]

  I prefer this attitude of Abraham's much better.

  From The Message Bible:

  Genesis 18: 17 -19 Then God said, "Shall I keep back from Abraham what I'm about to do? Abraham is going to become a large and strong nation; all the nations of the world are going to find themselves blessed through him. Yes, I've settled on him as the one to train his children and future family to observe God 's way of life, live kindly and generously and fairly, so that God can complete in Abraham what he promised him."

  20 -21 God continued, "The cries of the victims in Sodom and Gomorrah are deafening; the sin of those cities is immense. I'm going down to see for myself, see if what they're doing is as bad as it sounds. Then I'll know."

  22 The men set out for Sodom, but Abraham stood in God 's path, blocking his way.

  23 -25 Abraham confronted him, "Are you serious? Are you planning on getting rid of the good people right along with the bad? What if there are fifty decent people left in the city; will you lump the good with the bad and get rid of the lot? Wouldn't you spare the city for the sake of those fifty innocents? I can't believe you'd do that, kill off the good and the bad alike as if there were no difference between them. Doesn't the Judge of all the Earth judge with justice?"

  26 God said, "If I find fifty decent people in the city of Sodom, I'll spare the place just for them."

  27 -28 Abraham came back, "Do I, a mere mortal made from a handful of dirt, dare open my mouth again to my Master? What if the fifty fall short by five—would you destroy the city because of those missing five?"

  He said, "I won't destroy it if there are forty-five."

  29 Abraham spoke up again, "What if you only find forty?"

  "Neither will I destroy it if for forty."

  30 He said, "Master, don't be irritated with me, but what if only thirty are found?"

  "No, I won't do it if I find thirty."

  31 He pushed on, "I know I'm trying your patience, Master, but how about for twenty?"

  "I won't destroy it for twenty."

  32 He wouldn't quit, "Don't get angry, Master—this is the last time. What if you only come up with ten?"

  "For the sake of only ten, I won't destroy the city."

  33 When God finished talking with Abraham, he left. And Abraham went home.
• 

  quietlyleaving

  HS

  I think this is the point that FunkyDerek is trying to make, that is, that in believing as an article of Faith, accepting and defending the principle behind the Old Testamament and its moments of barbarous cruelty and genocide, you are in actual fact condoning it.

  Surely, the other alternatives left to you is that you accept the parts of the OT that suit your view of God as being from God, but reject the features of those books that appear not to fit in with your view of God, or that the OT is a book of myths, mixed with fables, moral poems, half-truths, and mainpulated history.

  snowbird denies that she should be seen to be condoning the cruelty etc and that is the position she occupies as I see it. She said one day it will all be understood or something like that.