Will this be "the Sign of the Son of Man"?

by a Christian 78 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  a Christian

  Nark,

  You wrote: The "sign of the Son of Man" in Matthew 24:30 (distinct from the astral events in v. 29) is generally understood as the very coming of the Son of Man (compare the parallel in Mark 13:26, "Then they will see 'the Son of Man coming in clouds' with great power and glory") ...

  Understanding scripture is, of course, tricky business. When Christ said "Then they will see the Son of Man coming" he did not necessarily mean, "Then they will see that he has come."

  My car has been making a lot of noises lately. So I see some repair bills coming. In saying that I do not mean these bills have already arrived. I mean I am sure they will arrive soon.

  After discussing the astral events and specifically referring to "the sign of the Son of Man" in verses 29 and 30, in verses 32 and 33 Jesus said, "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, right at the door."

  Remember, Christ's apostles had asked him, "What will be the sign [singular] of your coming...?" They were obviously looking for some sort of forewarning. (Matt. 24:3) Christ then told them that "the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky." The sight of Christ himself appearing in the sky would not be a 'sign of his coming,' it would be his coming.

  You wrote: not the umpteenth "sign" that he is coming "soon".

  Jesus did not give multiple "signs" of his coming. Neither did he give a "composite sign" as JWs and others tell us that he did. Christ's apostles asked him for a singular sign and that is what he gave them, a sign that he said would "appear in the sky."

  Matthew 24:4-8 in The Message Bible renders his words this way; Jesus said, "Watch out for doomsday deceivers. Many leaders are going to show up with forged identities, claiming, 'I am Christ, the Messiah.' They will deceive a lot of people. When reports come in of wars and rumored wars, keep your head and don't panic. This is routine history; this is no sign of the end."
• 

  a Christian

  Derek,

  You wrote: The disgust I feel is tempered by my deep embarrassment for you ...

  What's your problem? I posted this subject here for discussion. I didn't come up with this idea. I just ran across it. It's been discussed all over the Net for a couple years. In fact I said to begin with that I hesitated to start a new thread on it thinking it had most likely already been discussed here. Part of the reason I opened this discussion was to get opposing views.

  You wrote: which itself is heightened by your getting the date for Easter 2029 wrong.

  I did not say anything about "Easter 2029." I wrote of "Easter 2036." And that date is correct as April 13, at least on Western calendars.

  However, quoting from what someone else had written and assuming they were correct, I referred to "Good Friday, 2029" as falling on April 13th. It now appears that Good Friday does not fall on that date in 2029. Thank you for encouraging me to do a fact check.

  However, this does not entirely invalidate the premise. For if the Apophis asteroid does appear in earth's skies, as astronomers tell us it will, on Easter Sunday 2036 - a date everyone in the Western world associates with Christ, and then strikes the earth, certainly the entire Christian world will then be wondering if this is "the sign of the Son of Man."
• 

  BurnTheShips

  (Are you following me? Well, s top it or I call the cops.)

  Huh?
• 

  knock knock

  A wicked g-g-generation s-s-seeks a s-s-sign. Three words, three stutters. Could be a sign.
• 

  funkyderek

  a Christian:

  What's your problem? I posted this subject here for discussion. I didn't come up with this idea. I just ran across it.

  And the problem is that instead of dismissing it as the obvious nonsense it is, you gave it time and consideration. You actually thought that such ridiculous fantasies may have some connection to reality.

  It's been discussed all over the Net for a couple years.

  Not all over the Net. Just the weird apocalyptic corners you and your kind inhabit.

  In fact I said to begin with that I hesitated to start a new thread on it thinking it had most likely already been discussed here.

  I don't recall this particular wacky prediction being mentioned here before but there have been certainly many of the same type. I've no doubt you've encountered at least as many of them as I have, which is why it puzzles me that you give this one any consideration at all.

  Part of the reason I opened this discussion was to get opposing views.

  Good. You've got one.

  I did not say anything about "Easter 2029." I wrote of "Easter 2036." And that date is correct as April 13, at least on Western calendars.

  I meant Good Friday which I would consider part of Easter, although I suppose technically it's Lent. To a non-religious person like me, it's the start of Easter weekend.

  However, this does not entirely invalidate the premise.

  No, I didn't think it would. But the premise is nonsense anyway. Even if the trivial fact of its second appearance being on Easter Sunday was matched by the minor coincidence of its first appearance being on Good Friday, that would not validate the premise. A comet is still a ball of ice and rock thats been hurtling through space for aeons before anyone thought up your particular brand of superstition. It has nothing to do with what Middle Eastern fisherman living thousands of years ago thought was going to happen.

  For if the Apophis asteroid does appear in earth's skies, as astronomers tell us it will, on Easter Sunday 2036 - a date everyone in the Western world associates with Christ, and then strikes the earth, certainly the entire Christian world will then be wondering if this is "the sign of the Son of Man."

  It's in the nature of religious people to interpret whatever happens as a sign from their particular deities. If something of significance happens on a "holy day" then adherents of the religion in question are bound to see it as a sign - it's what they do.
• 

  a Christian

  This is an edit of my opening post, eliminating my mention of "Good Friday" since I discovered that reference to be in error.

  ____________________________________________________

  Could the asteroid Apophis prove to be "the sign of the Son of Man"?

  There is an asteroid now heading our way. Astronomers have named it "Apophis." In Egyptian myth, Apophis was the ancient spirit of evil and destruction, a demon that was determined to plunge the world into eternal darkness. A fitting name, astronomers reasoned, for a menace now hurtling towards Earth from outer space.

  In twenty-one years this asteroid will come as close to us as the communication satellites which orbit our earth. It will first appear in earth's skies on April 13th, in the year 2029. It will then return exactly seven years later on April 13 ( Easter Sunday, the day of Christ's resurrection ) in the year 2036. Astronomers tell us that as this asteroid first closely passes by the earth in the year 2029 our planet's gravitational pull may alter its orbit just enough so that upon its return in the year 2036 it might then strike the earth.

  The time that passes between this asteroid's first appearance in earth's skies and its possibly fear inspiring return ( exactly seven years ) as well as the date of its return, Easter Sunday, 2036, 2,000 years following the culmination of Daniel's Seventy Weeks prophecy ( AD 36 ), both seem very "apocalyptic." Could this asteroid prove to be the "huge star" that "falls from heaven burning like a torch" which Revelation calls "Wormwood"? (Rev. 8:10,11) Could this asteroid also prove to be "the sign of the Son of Man" which Christ said "will appear in the sky" just before his return? (Matt. 24:30) The date that this asteroid will return to earth after being away for exactly seven years, Resurrection Sunday, will certainly then draw all people's attention to Jesus Christ as they then ponder this asteroid's return, possibly doing so very fearfully. (Luke 21:26) And isn't that what any good "sign" is supposed to do, draw attention to its sponsor? Of course all of this could be nothing more than a very interesting coincidence allowing us to now engage in some very interesting speculation. Only time will tell. Twenty-one years from now, will the asteroid Apophis do to the year 2036 for the entire Christian world what the Watchtower Society once did to the year 1975 for Jehovah's Witnesses? This information comes from NASA's Web site and other credible sources. http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/apophis/ http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/13may_2004mn4.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99942_Apophis http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2005/dec/07/spaceexploration.research To find more information on the asteroid "Apophis" do a Google search.
• 

  a Christian

  Luke 21:25-26 "There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken."

  From Popular Mechanics (Dec. 2006) http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/air_space/4201569.html

  If the dice do land the wrong way in 2029, Apophis would have to be deflected by some 5000 miles to miss the Earth in 2036. Hollywood notwithstanding, that's a feat far beyond any current human technology. The fanciful mission in the 1998 movie Armageddon—to drill a hole more than 800 ft. into an asteroid and detonate a nuclear bomb inside it—is about as technically feasible as time travel. In reality, after April 13, 2029, there would be little we could do but plot the precise impact point and start evacuating people.

  According to projections, an Apophis impact would occur somewhere along a curving 30-mile-wide swath stretching across Russia, the Pacific Ocean, Central America and on into the Atlantic. Managua, Nicaragua; San José, Costa Rica; and Caracas, Venezuela, all would be in line for near-direct hits and complete destruction.The most likely target, though, is several thousand miles off the West Coast, where Apophis would create a 5-mile-wide, 9000-ft.-deep "crater" in the water. The collapse of that transient water crater would trigger tsunamis that would hammer California with an hour-long fusillade of 50-ft. waves.
• 

  Narkissos

  a Christian,

  It is entirely possible (although by no means necessary) that through its unique wording Matthew's Gospel does refer to some ultimate, heavenly sign before the final coming of the Son of Man -- in which case Matthew 24:30 would break the unique event of Mark 13:26 into three separate ones, namely (1) the "sign of the Son of Man", (2) the mourning of all the tribes of the earth and (3) the coming of the Son of Man on the clouds of heaven. But in that case it would be a specifically Matthean scenario.

  Btw it's interesting that early Christian exegesis often associated the sign of the Son of Man with the cross (which the Gospel of Peter has ascended to heaven together with the resurrected Christ). One possible early allusion to it may be found in Didachè 16:

  And then shall appear the signs of the truth: first, the sign of an outspreading (sèmeion ekpetaseôs) in heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet. And third, the resurrection of the dead -- yet not of all, but as it is said: "The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him." Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven.

  Might your comet look cross-like by any chance?
• 

  Narkissos

  I tried to edit my last post but it was too late.

  Cf. also the Ethiopian Apocalypse of Peter, 1:

  For the coming of the Son of God shall not be plain (i.e. foreseen); but as the lightning that shineth from the east unto the west, so will I come upon the clouds of heaven with a great host in my majesty; with my cross going before my face will I come in my majesty, shining sevenfold more than the sun will I come in my majesty with all my saints, mine angels (mine holy angels). And my Father shall set a crown upon mine head, that I may judge the quick and the dead and recompense every man according to his works.

  And Epistula Apostolorum, 16:

  Verily I say unto you, I shall come like the sun when it is risen, and my brightness will be seven times the brightness thereof! The wings of the clouds shall bear me in brightness, and the sign of the cross shall go before me, and I shall come upon earth to judge the quick and the dead.
• 

  a Christian

  Nark,

  You asked: Might your comet look cross-like by any chance?

  No one as yet has photographed it. They have only estimated its size. About 320 meters. It is of course highly unlikely that any object hurling through space for billions of years at 30 kilometers a second could maintain the shape of a cross.

  However your quotes do not say that "the shape of the cross" would preceed Christ's return. They only say that "the sign of the cross" would do so. When this asteroid appears in earth's skies on Easter Sunday, 2036 it will then, in effect, be accompanied by the sign of the cross. For on the day of its appearing Christians will be celebrating the resurrection of their crucified Savior. And an empty cross has long served as a symbol of the risen Christ.