On the sound use of mental suicide.

by Narkissos 86 Replies latest jw friends

  • zensim
    zensim

    The fire which enlightens is the same fire which consumes.

    - Henri Frederic Amiel, philosopher and writer (1821-1881)

    I know my speak sounds mystical and this is not something I am happy about. As TallPenguin says "the language I have for what I'm experiencing just doesn't cut it". It will always sound the same in the end - because the experience (that de-ja vu) is the same, one just knows it again and again and again - each time more deeply, more expansively, more exquisitely.

    So when one accepts this and surrenders - there is that sense of there being less of me and, simultaenously, more of me (in an expanded sense). Dualism still exists and we still play out the dualism - forgetting, remembering - yet from a place of awareness that encompasses both and doesn't get 'stuck' in either state. I am happy to forget, there is so much compassion in forgetting. The 'in and out pattern' is genuine.

    About four years ago I saw a 'vision' of myself five years down the track and all I could see was a dark figure in blackness and it scared the bejesus out of me (I was just beginning to leave the witnesses) because I 'knew' that it was my future self and I was (in my limited understanding and labelling back then) "shamanic"! (ooooooh). Now, if you met me, all you would see is a suburban mother of two, reasonably well kept (happy for you to think 'yummy mummy' though), married, trying to do the best she can and, by no means do I look hippy, shamanic, new agey etc :) I thought I consciously chose the path I was on - but at the conscious level there was a lot of resistance - and now ... I don't completely know. All I am aware of is that there is something deeper inside which drives me, pushes me, pulls me. I don't consider myself shamanic anymore than I consider myself anything else - I understand that anyone who delves into that abyss will appear to others (and even in our own undeveloped eyes) as mystic, shamanic, crazy, simple etc etc. I find the same essence in science. I love science and delve into it as much as I can and I see the same intensity. It is there within anyone who is pushing the boundaries of consciousness. Whether it looks 'light' or 'dark' is, again, just a play of shadows.

    TallPenguin (and this is limited to me knowing nothing about you or how long you have been out of your old constructs, so please take it in that spirit) - the dark moments become less debilitatingly dark in the sense that your willingness to be taken there increases. I think this is what Nark was talking about when he says you fall in love with death, because in every moment there is a small death to the previous moment. You step into knowing and, as soon as you have that 'aha' moment of "I know" you realise that you don't know and fall into the abyss again of "and even this is not it". I found reading your words was like reading my own :) I especially liked "I feel like I am at one with life, in love with it, making love to it." Just yesterday, after posting, as I was going about the shopping centre preparing for my daughter's b'day today, I was wondering "How do I post onto this topic what it feels like to have so much energy in your body that you feel as if you want to have sex with everyone and everything?". This could be so wrongly interpreted by so many, yet those who have experienced it will know what I mean. It is the orgasmic bliss one feels when one has let go of all attachment to any one thing, one person, one situation as bringing it about. It isn't about sex (although my Salt'n'Pepper vid was taking a poke at myself because I believe in the end it always comes back to sex) because it feels so pure, like you can feel every cell in your body vibrating. As in that Jill Bolte video, I am often wondering "How do I fit into my body?" This is beyond feeling whole as a person, this is the experience of universal wholeness that I can only describe as such pure potential that it is the uncreated, the unmanifest and the unborn.

    The living here becomes easier as you become more at ease with this state, so I can only encourage you that you are in fact in a most wonderful place! In fact, I now know we don't actually 'forget' or step out of this flow. I just think that when we open and grow newly, for a moment we feel the intensity of that new state. I used to get frustrated because then 'it' would go away and I would go back to my default setting. I was attached to that first feeling of excitement, of aliveness. What I finally came to accept was that my 'default' setting (that feeling of neutrality, which can look/feel like the grey zone until you re-frame it mentally) was in fact the state of mastery, when I had come to embody what I learned and it was now an effortless (or at the very least, easier) part of my being. So I enjoy this state as much as the feeling of being in the flow. It has stopped being 'neutral or grey' and rather I know it as the stillness, the potentiality of everything that ever was and ever could be. You don't live here - you live from this.

    I am so beyond caring now whether I am this or am not this, including enlightenment. I have called off the search to find myself or to find anything outside myself. All I want to do is to grow in my ability to be all this. This thread is about being aware of those who are just entering this seeking consciously and you can't say to them "stop seeking' because it is like saying to a baby "stop crawling" - it is a necessary part of development to get to walking.

  • Rapunzel
    Rapunzel

    Narkissos - You mention "the big narratives." Is that the English translation of Jean-Francois Lyotard's notion of "les grands recits"? To paraphrase the poet, Shelley, "Ha! Do I scent postmodernist thinking here?"

    Joy Nichols, it's interestimng that you should mention the phrase - "the unbearable lightness of being." That's the title of a book by the Czech writer, Milan Kundera. It was orginally published in Czech. As I said, The Unbearable Lightness of Being is the title of his novel, but I'm not if he was the one who first coined that phrase. Kundera also wrote The Joke; Life IsElsewhere; ForgettIng; Immortality; Testaments Betrayed, as well as other novels. Just curious. Have you read Kundera?

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    to all my jungle babies...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u86uIm0dgZQ

    I met you on somebodys island
    You thought you had known me before
    I brought you a crate of papaya
    They waited all night by your door
    You probably wouldnt remember
    I probably couldnt forget
    Jungle love in the surf in the pouring rain
    Everythings better when wet

    Jungle love its drivin me mad
    Its makin me crazy
    Jungle love its drivin me mad
    Its makin me crazy

    But lately you live in the jungle
    I never see you alone
    But we need some definite answers
    So I thought I would write you a poem
    The question to everyones answer
    Is usually asked from within
    But the patterns of the rain
    And the truth they contain
    Have written my life on your skin

    Jungle love its drivin me mad
    Its makin me crazy
    Jungle love its drivin me mad
    Its makin me crazy

    You treat me like I was your ocean
    You swim in my blood when its warm
    My cycles of circular motion
    Protect you and keep you from harm
    You live in a world of illusion
    Where everythings peaches and cream
    We all face a scarlet conclusion
    But we spend our time in a dream

    Jungle love its drivin me mad
    Its makin me crazy
    Jungle love its drivin me mad
    Its makin me crazy

    Jungle love its drivin me mad
    Its makin me crazy
    Jungle love its drivin me mad
    Its makin me crazy

    love michelle

  • tall penguin
    tall penguin

    Zenism, you are a kindred spirit methinks.

    "It will always sound the same in the end - because the experience (that de-ja vu) is the same, one just knows it again and again and again - each time more deeply, more expansively, more exquisitely."

    YES!!! When I write my blog I have these moments where I know I've visited these ideas before, but each time they seem new somehow, enhanced, heightened, more true, more real. It's like I know I know, but now I really know I know.

    "the dark moments become less debilitatingly dark in the sense that your willingness to be taken there increases."

    Yes, I am learning about surrender more and more these days. To accept what is with grace. To be with what is without the need to label it as good or bad, as useful or not useful and just be. Very challenging. Much resistance.

    ""How do I post onto this topic what it feels like to have so much energy in your body that you feel as if you want to have sex with everyone and everything?""

    lol. Yes! I understand. And have more to say on this, but I'm moving it to a pm so watch your box. :)

    tall penguin

  • zensim
    zensim
    but now I really know I know

    To hear my own words coming out of someone else's mouth

    It is like holding the hand of a two year old as you go for a veeeeery slooooooooow waaaaaaaaaalk and re-discovering the fascination of a bug, a leaf, a rock - of seeing life through eyes of wonder. It is seeing the world afreshly all the time and falling in love - again and again and again.

    There is grace here. To be is to feel the effortlessness, the beauty, the bliss. It is also to know this as a birthright of every human being. Not mistaking the luxury in being able to say "this is worth passing through the abyss", forgetting the pain and struggle of others who are still contracted in their focus. This is why I have issue with a lot of 'gurus' who speak of this, yet offer little practical skills for people to grow in awareness. I have been too many times in the presence of pseudo peace - which reeks as much as any other religious practice. Mind you, there is also a plethora of 'self-help' manuals/courses out there - yet, in my experience, most of them fail to create an embrace of sacredness because they are still focussed on the 'doing'.

    "Who am I?" is a useful practice for focussing the mind - it will burn away all extraneous thought and everything that is not truth. In all honesty though, I hate it - lol. Resistance is just as welcome as any other emotion.

    The 'unbearable lightness of being' indeed says it all.

    E B Browning

    How do I love thee? Let me count the ways.
    I love thee to the depth and breadth and height
    My soul can reach, when feeling out of sight
    For the ends of being and ideal grace.
    I love thee to the level of everyday's
    Most quiet need, by sun and candlelight.
    I love thee freely, as men might strive for right;
    I love thee purely, as they turn from praise.
    I love thee with the passion put to use
    In my old griefs, and with my childhood's faith.
    I love thee with a love I seemed to lose
    With my lost saints, I love thee with the breath,
    Smiles, tears, of all my life; and, if god choose,
    I shall but love thee better after death.

     
  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Rapunzel,

    Yes that's what I had in mind (maybe better translated into English as "great" or "grand" or meta-narratives, I'm not sure).

    Tall Penguin,

    Thank you very much for your input -- although I haven't anything to reply or add to your ongoing conversation with zensim, I truly enjoy it...

    Would you mind giving the link to your blog?

    Just a reflection (inspired by your posts and that of myelaine) on the problem of "experience" and "communication" -- I feel that every social context (from a diverse discussion forum or a market place to "churches" or "clubs" of supposedly "kindred minds/spirits") there is a tiny window of helpful and genuine communication between the meaninglessness of "expected speech" (where you simply voice "everybody's thoughts in everybody's language" -- the realm of German Man = "they (say)," in Heidegger -- too bad English lacks such an indefinite pronoun) and the meaninglessness of obscure gibberish (when you do have something to say but you don't manage to put it in "everybody's speech" and give anybody a chance to get it). I feel we've got to take advantage of such "windows" when we happen to find one -- and don't worry too much about the silence or misundestanding in between... it's all part of the journey.

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear Narkissos...

    "I feel we've got to take advantage of such "windows" when we happen to find one -- and don't worry too much about the silence or misundestanding in between... it's all part of the journey."...

    ...Jeremiah 39:15-18...

    you may not want to philosophize about the implications of ignoring my "evangelical life"...lol...but it really doesn't bode well for the "unbelievers"...if they insist that it''s ALL just something that I cooked up in my head...or to borrow a phrase..."the Bible is an instrument that anyone can play any old tune on". If you don't care where I'm coming from, OR where I'm going...it is much more than silence...you just aren't part of my "dream", so to speak...Jeremiah 31:26...

    And I do care and worry...Jeremiah 31:15

    love michelle

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    myelaine,

    The best thing I can do is acknowledge that I generally don't understand one single line in your posts... how you or I may construe that doesn't really matter I guess. But I do hope you find other suitable "communication windows"...

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear Narkissos...

    you don't understand me because you are very introspective. I on the other hand have looked through other "windows"...Ezekiel 8:8-9...and can see through many different "eyes"...Ezekiel 1:18

    love michelle

  • tall penguin
    tall penguin

    Hey Narkissos, My blog is at:

    www.tallpenguin.com

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