ExJw And Abortions (page 7)

joelbear

When a man and woman are trying to have a baby at what point do they view it as being alive and start acting responsibly towards it?

tyydyy

Sorry Joel that was my lame attempt at joking with you. It wasn't meant as a serious comment.

Xena

My daughter didn't become "real" to me until I actually felt her move inside of me...I would imagine it is different with each individual.

MegaDude

Tim,

You said:
Most abortions do not stop a beating heart.
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I'm not sure that's true. What I've read tells me the fetus/baby's heart begins beating at four weeks. I am unable to find statistics for the United States or the World to tell me at what stage most pregnancy abortions are performed. If someone could find that information and post it, I'd like to see it.

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You said:
My mom was pro-choice and chose to have a baby.
As long as you have an option, you have to make a choice.
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I'm not sure I understand this, except that it could apply to any choice you could make. I could elect to murder an adult who I happen to dislike. It is my option. It comes with consequences if I am caught. And it is my choice. Just like what I'm going to eat for lunch, I guess. We all have choices on lots of things. And it is legal to have an abortion in this country.
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You said:
Actually, I think that the morality police actually cause some abortions. If they make it too difficult for youngsters to get birth control then they have to take some responsibility for the pregnancy and the abortion.
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Agree totally. Religious organizations have done a sorry, sorry job in the area of sex, birth control, et cetera.

There are stages in the fetus/baby's development where it has a consciousness. It breathes (amniotic fluid), it can feel pain and sensation, and it can move. In all respects it is alive in my opinion. Certainly it is anyone's choice, under our current laws, to terminate a fetus/baby's life even though *it could survive* if delivered prematurely. Here I'm talking about partial birth abortions which can be done very late in the pregnancy.

Tim, I would guess you would view a fetus that *could* survive if allowed to live as being alive? And that terminating the life of that fetus is extinguishing a life, but that it is your choice to make regardless?

Not trying to be inflammatory. Just clarifying your stance.
This is an issue I've grappled with myself.

"The God that comes before skepticism may bear little resemblence to the God that comes after."
(M. Scott Peck: The Road Less Traveled)

mommy

Seeker
Okay I will bite. As I mentioned in my earlier post that we can argue both sides as to which point a zygote becomes a human. But what would the purpose of that be? What you may view as a lifeless collection of cells dependent on another for life, I may view as a future child with my hair and eyes slowly cooking inside me. All of our perceptions of it are different, and a further defintion cannot be more clearly defined than it already has been.

What other purpose is there for a zygote? The end result is a human being. What happens up to the point of it being viable and living on it's own, will not change that it is meant to be a human.
wendy

Blind faith can justify anything.~Richard Dawkins

Seeker

Thanks for responding, Mommy. Your argument is what I expected would happen when anyone tried to define "human being.":

What other purpose is there for a zygote? The end result is a human being.

So if the "end result" is a human being, it can't be a human being yet, can it? If it is, why define things in that manner?

Either it is a human being already, not going to result in one, or it is not. If not, what is it? If so, what is the definition of a human being?

(Not trying to argue with you, Mommy, just making a semantic point about those who say abortion kills a "human being.")

tyydyy

Mega,

My stance, for what it's worth is based on MY definition of life and the value of that life. I would not impose MY definition on someone else either by a law or by making judgemental statements.

The law has to step in a some point and that should be set by the collective concience of the community and I believe that should be done by better method than the current political method used by the US.

I also believe that there cannot be an accurate collective concience without open discussions like the one we are having here.

If I were to become pregnant (science has to make some quantum leaps before that is possible) I would use my knowledge and emotions to come to that conclusion at that time.

TimB

joelbear

seeker,

You can back down that slippery slope as well.

does a human being have to be able to live independently, then all invalids, mentally retarded, etc would not be human beings.

conscious, then are we human beings when we are asleep?

I have to say.

Semantics aside.

Think of what abortionists are arguing for. The ability to suspend responsibility for life that is produced. Killing your own flesh and blood to rid yourself of responsibility.

Now, it pisses me off when people throw all this responsibility on the mother, as I have stated earlier.

I can't ever see myself on that side of the argument.

It simply feels right to me to preserve life.

Joel

mommy

Seeker
You are such a stickler for semantics, and quite frankly I stink..lol I even had to look up semantics..hehe Okay take away "being" in the structure "human being" Can anyone here argue that this lifeform is not human? Well we have a few people that have had some alien interventions, or so they claim.

Since your intent was not to argue, I won't go any further, than this point. If you want to argue about which point a zygote become alive and viable, then you are conviently ignoring the purpose of this life. Stopping a process in mid project does not change the intent of the end result. If this helps to justify their actions for some, so be it. Let it get down to definitions and take a week by week day by day look at what stage the fetus is in. Even that does not change what the end result was to be.

Back to my first paragragh in my response. The definitions do not matter. Because what it boils down to is what each individual percieves a future child to be. At which point they are comfortable to call it a human being, and at which point they view it as lifeless. Not one of us here has a say in what another will do with their body, nor can we determine what their definition should be.
wendy

Blind faith can justify anything.~Richard Dawkins

openminded

True story: I knew this black lab that had a litter of puppies(5 I think) and they all seemed lethargic(perhaps retarded). The owner of the dogs called the vet for advice. His advice: put the puppies in the bathroom with the mother overnight. So the owner did this. In the morning, all the puppies were gone. The mother ate them all.

This was nature's solution. Im not condemning or advocating abortion.

ExJw And Abortions

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