ExJw And Abortions (page 8)

Seeker

I really am not trying to argue, joel and mommy. I myself am not sure how to define "human" in such a way that encompasses everything appropriate while leaving out everything irrelevant.

Clearly the definition has to encompass the invalid as well as the unconscious. A person in a coma is still a human.

If you want to argue about which point a zygote become alive and viable, then you are conviently ignoring the purpose of this life. Stopping a process in mid project does not change the intent of the end result.

More slippery slope: What is the purpose of each sperm heading for the egg? To start a process that will result in a human. What happens when one sperm makes it? All the rest have their purpose twarted, stopped in mid-process.

I don't know the answer. I, were I a woman, could probably not have an abortion, for I'm too tender-hearted toward all life on earth. Yet I can't even begin to think of a zygote as human. Life, yes, human, no. My hesitation toward abortion indicates I don't want to hurt any life, even one I don't consider to be human.

But above all, I strongly believe that my thoughts are irrelevant, and each woman must decide for themselves. To those who argue for intervention in order to prevent murder, there are plenty of murders going on throughout the world. Busy yourself with those murders first, then we'll talk. Until then, women choose.

MegaDude

Tim said:
My stance, for what it's worth is based on MY definition of life and the value of that life. I would not impose MY definition on someone else either by a law or by making judgemental statements.
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I wasn't sure you had a definite opinion. I was trying to find out if you had a definite opinion by posing a hypothetical situation, and asking you a question. I wasn't trying to pry, but I do find it interesting where people draw the line on what is right for them and wrong for them and the reasons why. You should have been at some of my discussions with JWs on why they could live with WT blunders they knew were absolutely wrong like the blood doctrines.

"The God that comes before skepticism may bear little resemblence to the God that comes after."
(M. Scott Peck: The Road Less Traveled)

openminded

I happen to know that my own mother, considered aborting me. She was 19 and unmarried and came from a crappy family.

She never told me about it I found out about it from someone else.

To be honest I really dont feel any gratitude for her decision.

As it turned out, she did a shitty job of raising me(in my opinion) I grew up a JW.

I always felt a little resentment from her as if she wasnt ready to raise kids or be a good mother. I think the best overall choice would have been adoption to a family that really wanted kids but could not have any.

I have never met my bio-dad. My mom gave me a name about a year ago. Do you think he would want me to look him up? I dont think he would but I havnt decided.

The wierd thing is, even though at 28 I just found out about this, I always had a gut feeling that somthing wasnt right. I even brought it up with my mother as a kid and she just brushed it off .

tyydyy

Mega,

I feel that it is impossible for me to say how I would decide in a hypthetical situation since one of the factors would be my emotions at that time.

TimB

Skimmer

Again, human life begins at conception. This is the point of genetic determination. This is the point where all that is needed is a few months of nutrition and support. Now, none of that nutrition and support adds anything to the fetus that makes it a person; it just makes it a bigger, more well-formed person. The basic personhood was there at the beginning. Personhood is not subjective; it does not occur when it is convenient for the mother to have it occur.

The pro-abortion arguments based on development and viability are weak to the point of non-existence. A newborn child will still be developing for a long time. It will still need nutrition and support for years before it can fend for itself. Would any sane person allow a mother to kill her newborn or toddler or adolescent just because that child can't survive on its own? Why is it that the pro-abortion argument for justifiable homicide based on viability only applicable to pre-born children? If a woman can make the choice for abortion, why can't she make the choice for infanticide for a dependent child?

mommy

On April 21st 1997 I had a D&C, for those who do not know what this is, it is a surgical cleansing of the uterus. I was 12 weeks pregnant with a child. According to the sonogram there was no heartbeat, the baby should have had a hearbeat for weeks already, but there was not one present. I was told that the baby continued to grow as normal, because it was depending on my nutrients to grow, and didn't need a heartbeat yet. Beside some spotting(breakthrough blood spots) I showed no signs of a miscarriage.

My doctor was adamant that I need to have a D&C due to the fact that I could hemmorage if the body attempted to abort. I honestly struggled with this, because the baby was still growing, and would continue to grow until nature realized there was an error, or the baby was born and entered this world. When the baby was born it would not be able to survive without me.

I chose to have the D&C, but I still felt I had a physical hand in this abortion, or ending of this life. I had a very hard time dealing with this emotionally. My personal view on when a life starts is at conception, but I can understand why so many feel otherwise.

I have since that time met a couple who had the similar experience as I had, their baby in utero had "lost" it's heartbeat, in other words it stopped beating. Through advanced technology they were able to determine what was wrong with the heart. They chose to let nature takes it's course and delivered a child with a severe heart condition. Their child is around 3 years old today, and has had several surgeries.

I cannot imagine what this woman went through carrying this child. To not know if the child would stay alive, taking a chance that this child would indeed suffer, through various surgeries. Personally I am confident in my decision to abort. With her she was not and took a chance. To stand on the sidelines and say what shoulda woulda coulda be done is not humanly possible. We must respect each individual for it is their decision.

I think what we need to do is advocate that the laws be upheld. How many of you would be outraged to go to a voters booth to find that all females had to travel 180 miles out of the way to vote? And when they went in to vote they had to walk past protesters who harassed them for carrying out their law abiding rights? I think this issue is more relevant than should we, should we not. The law has already decided that, and human decency cries out for us not to judge.
wendy

Blind faith can justify anything.~Richard Dawkins

tyydyy

Skimmer,

What is the exact point of conception? Is it when the first cell splits? Is it when the sperm enters the egg? Is it when the sperm has just outrun all the rest and is about to enter the egg? Is it when a couple has sex without protection making pregnancy inevitable?

What is the value of that life at that point?

What is the purpose of sex?

How can your view of these questions affect your views on abortion?

TimB

MegaDude

Tim said:
What is the purpose of sex?
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You're married to Xena and have to ask THAT QUESTION????

LOLOLOL

(kidding, Tim.

Skimmer

[Tongue firmly in cheek]

Maybe Planned Parenthood and other abortionists should get together and run a dating service for their clients. Since 99%+ abortions are done for reasons of birth control, a list of females who think convenience abortion is acceptable would be a valuable property in a certain segment of the dating market. Think of the
types of males it would attract: the males looking for sex without responsibility, the males looking for sex without having to worry about the consequences, the males looking for sex without having to be concerned about the duties of fatherhood, the males looking for sex without being bothered about the potential need of making a commitment, males looking for sex while retaining the ability to switch from woman to woman without bothersome complications, and so forth.

Skimmer

Hello tyydyy:

The point of conception occurs when the during the fertilization process when genetic identity is achieved.

Priot to than, the ovum and the spermazoan are just cells. After that, the result is a new human life.

I would say that the main purpose of sexual intercourse is to show one's love for another with the foreknowledge that a child may result. Bluntly put, without at least the willingness to take responsibility for one's actions, sexual intercourse is just fucking.

ExJw And Abortions

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