OK, let me explain.... (page 3)

Carlos_Helms

To slay a demon you have to face a demon.

I don't care if it's in the kingdom hall, the public square, or the bathtub...eventually, you have to face your demons to kill 'em. I think any self-respecting man or woman HAS to respect another for telling it like it is - and getting himself squared away. It might even inspire some.

Carlos

dawg

Carlos, I love it when you chime in, even when we don't agree... it make you feel good to tell the truth.

Carlos_Helms

Hell, Dawg...life ain't always pretty.

You gotta do what ya gotta do sometimes to wake people up. Does anyone enjoy being awakened in the middle of a deep sleep? No. Does that mean we need to let people go though life unconscious?

No...it ain't pretty, but at least it's real.

Carlos

changeling

Dawg, no need to explain. We get it. We always did. The problem is you don't get that not everyone has the same personality, circumstances or desires as you. Like I've said here before, leaving the WT is difficult and very personal, we should not judge anyone's method of leaving or how they chose to deal with the aftermath.

changeling :)

Honesty

Well as you may know, I "studied" a short time ago with some JW's. I didn't tell them I was born into the religion, just that I attend church occasionally and that I have some family members who are JW's.

They had the most difficult time with me, as I had an answer for just about everything they said. They finally gave up the study, but they have recently started coming around again.

What do you think I should do this time? Keep in mind I have nothing to lose, I just did this for a little fun and also I did it to try to see what it is like for someone to be converted into the JW religion, I was born in and can't see why people are duped into this cult.

Well anyway, how do you think I should proceed this time?

Should I just outright give them a piece of my mind, or should I continue in my reverse theocratic warfare.

I am the honest type, I don't like to trick people, I am pretty much an "in your face" type person.

The only reason I dragged it out as long as I did, was that I was waiting for the perfect opportunity to arise when they happened to bring a young school age JW or college age JW to the study, the only problem is he kept bringing those older retiree type JW's to the study.

I want to say something that will stick in the mind of any JW kid that tags along to the study.

So I have 2 choices

1. keep up this charade.

2. Tell them what I really know and think about their cult.

Just be a witness for Jesus, Dave.

Two weeks ago I witnessed for the Lord with a JW elder from my last kingdom hall (the one where I DA'd from).

Some of the things I said to him were:

When I realised that just one sin separated me from God and that no matter how 'Good' I tried to be I couldn't wash myself clean in His eyes.

That's when I went to Jesus in prayer ("We pray to Jehovah" he intejected) and asked Him to forgive me of my sins, to come into my life and lead me.

The Holy Spirit lives in me now (I cited Romans 8:9-11 and asked him to read it later).

He guides me, teaches me, counsels me, disciplines me, comforts me and gives me more peace and joy than I have ever had in my life.

I yearn for His fellowship.

Can the JW's and the Watchtower Society add to anything that I already have through the Holy Spirit?

That may accomplish 2 things:

1. It may get them to start thinking independantly of the "Faithful Slave", something they're not accustomed to.

2. They may conclude that you are demonized and will never knock on your door again.

Carlos_Helms

Dawg, no need to explain. We get it. We always did. The problem is you don't get that not everyone has the same personality, circumstances or desires as you. Like I've said here before, leaving the WT is difficult and very personal, we should not judge anyone's method of leaving or how they chose to deal with the aftermath.

changeling :)"

There is a psychological truth (yes, there is one); that a person has to face the very thing that made him the way he is (assuming that he has come to the realization that he is sub-par in some aspect). It may be parents. It may be the watchtower. Here, it is likely both. Inevitably, it is some authority figure from whom you had every right to expect unconditional love...and they just flat didn't deliver. The point is, you need truth to heal...and you have to heal in order to stop the cycle...for yourself and the betterment of mankind. We all do - even our parents who neglected their own psychological health whilst passing the goo on down to us.

Off-hand, I'd say that the watchtower finds its greatest potential in being a catalyst for healing between so many children and their parents. That doesn't say much for it, as it is little more than a compilation and distillation of seven million screwed up people. Whatever works. But I see little value in pussy-footing around the subject while continuing to be victimized by it. That doesn't always necessitate the "pile-driver" approach. Approaches may be different based upon personality types or the health of those you are approaching. But, for yourself and your children, you must do something.

Carlos

10p

dawg!

Your post resonated with me deeply.

I'm about a quarter way through Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged". Have you read it?

Its like you're living amongst madmen. You know the truth. You face reality as clearly as you can see it. You dont believe anything ... faith is for the fearful. But they look at you like you are the weak one.

I feel like you feel, like Winston Smith (1984) and Francisco D'Anconia (Atlas Shrugged).

I want to shout out at them. I do. But will it accomplish anything? Would it be like Homo erectus trying to teach a gorilla to make fire?

Would I feel better? If I used my energy to accomplish nothing, I would not. If it caused even one of my family to awake from their stupor, I would be elated.

I think of the all the intelligent people who were tortured by the mob, because they dared to express a different opinion.

changeling

Carlos: dawg and I have danced around this subject many times. He has an agenda of making everyone follow in his "in your face" footstps. People here have tried in vain to reason with him and show him that some have a lot to lose by acting that way, particullarly those who have children "in" (which dawg does not). He has even had the audacity of calling those who fade "cowards".

While most of us don't fault him for his confrontational approach, we would very much appreciate it if he would realize that "one size does NOT fit all". We would like a measure of understanding and respect for what we've been through. We have all suffered at the hands of the WT, but how we deal with our personal circumstances, is just that: personal. To be called "cowards" after having had the guts to leave the WT is a low blow.

I don't even know why I bother to post on his threads. He just does not listen and cannot see other points of view.

changeling :)

jamiebowers

Dawg,

When I left the organization, I really believed it was the truth. I also knew that if I stayed my jw husband would kill me, so I got df'd for refusing to recognize the elders' authority to tell me that I either had to remain married to a crazy man or hang around to see whether he'd choose to commit adultery or murder. My mom and my dear brother knew all of the details of this horrendous union, and they begged me to stay. But I couldn't, and they shunned me. I also know that my mom went to the elders when I told her that her husband tried to molest me. She followed the elders direction to the letter, and no action was taken to protect me. So, here you have a mother who knew at least twice that her daughter was in harm's way, yet she followed the organization instead of loving her own flesh and blood.

Although I didn't have the opportunity to fade, I can understand why many people do. It is because they know in their heart of hearts that many, if not most of their loved ones would turn away from them. Taking a stand against the WTB&TS is too scary for them, and they would prefer to fade and hope they won't be shunned for it.

Don't get me wrong; I'm glad now that I am out, and I stopped believing that they had the truth a long time ago. But I've been out for 20 years, and the frustration and pain of being shunned hasn't gone away. I don't think it ever will. Right now, I have everything I have ever wanted; a comfortable home, a loving husband, a wide circle of friends and fulfilling work. But the fact that I cannot simply pick up the phone and call my mom is agonizing. If I outlive her, I will not even be able to pay my respects to her in death. I only hear news of her through "worldly" relatives. My df'ing has caused divisions not only within my immediate family but with all relatives on my mom's side of the family. Since I organized the first family reunion in 14 years last year, none of the jws showed up. Everyone was upset that the jws couldn't bring themselves to associate with a "sinner" such as myself.

Believe me, if I would've had the time and circumstance to fade, I would've done so. If jw relatives could not accept the fact that I was fleeing for my life, how do you think others would be treated if they took a stand simply because they don't believe in the WTB&TS anymore?

dawg

Jamie, there are always certain circumstances for each person... it's not easy on any of us, but we chose to do the right thing.

OK, let me explain....

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