by dawg 60 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I understand the cathartic power of speaking your mind. It exerts your individuality. I've said strong words on occassion. And as you know I've got the vocabulary to back it up. There's nothing like the "bullseye" look in the eyes of an elder when he knows he's been stumped.
However, I want my words to have power. I want to make a difference. So I use my weapon wisely. Sometimes silence sets me up for a battle on another day.
I don't even know why I bother to post on his threads. He just does not listen and cannot see other points of view.
I don't really agree with this statement. I don't remember Dawg ever stating the WAY in which we should confront people. Just that we should do it.
I've gone to Dawg a lot of times and told him things that I was doing or plans I was making. Even when I was quite about somethings with my family, I told Dawg and he supported me. I didn't do things the way he did but in my own way I stood up for myself. He always respected me for that. He respected when I wanted to do things the way I felt were necessary. He gave me some really good advice and was always a listenning ear. He's got to be one of the sweetest persons that I know.
I agree with him 100% that we should stand up for ourselves. There are a million ways that we can do this. He is right that if we don't that we are hurting ourselves. I mean, there are always extending circumstances in the reasons why we might not do things (i.e our parents are 90 years old or something), but i believe Dawg is speaking about in general, we should all do something to heal ourselves and stand up for something that is wrong.
Dawg I feel you dude. I am out of time, its Father's Day so I have to get going for my family(no witness nothin' for my wife and kids). I have taken a big stand and it is a better way to go whether change occurs or not. They have no power over me, they tiptoe and I do not. Different circumstances justify different measures but there is a line that must be established. Talk more later.
cognac: read his old posts, they speak for themselves.
changeling
It's hard to answer this thread.
I so agree and so disagree at the same time.
Agree-
"It's abusive how our families treat us over this religion. "
"I was also allowing my ignorant family members to try and make me feel as an inferior, that's right, an inferior for my intelligence... "
"I was sick of those foolish bastards trying to make me feel bad, for years I've suffered from depression, I've drank too much, and basically I've almost lost my mind about 100 times trying to figure out why the freaking hell they can't see reality?"
"When you confront a JW, you now act like it's the JW that's a fool, something wrong with them, reverse the psycology."
"it does something to your personal healing if you make a stand, you know you're right, you know the JW leadership are liars... It heals you to say those words out loud, to not be afraid anymore, to not be ashamed anymore, to say what you know for a damned fact is true. It says that your thoughts are as good as any man's/wo... and god damned it they are! It's your family that's wrong... don't give them a pass when they refuse to give you one. "
Many JW's do treat former ones as the weak, Satanic, crazy one. Dealing from strength is good for personal
growth and to relieve our own doubts of ourselves. The healing is important. It does something to share
what you know and learn, and to validate your feelings instead of stuff them inside.
Disagree-
"then the tipping point"
"I WASN'T GOING TO TAKE THAT SHIT ANY LONGER, I'D HAD ENOUGH...! "
"deep inside they know that you're right and they're wrong"
Many have not reached their tipping point. They feel that the loss of loved ones will
hurt more than the personal growth you speak of. Many captives do not know that
they are wrong, while we are right.
Unsure where I stand-
"Take away all their freaking power, you now have that same power. Use it for the good, use it to free your family and loved ones. "
I don't know that it is used for good in many cases. They don't need to have the power over you
but they don't necessarily get freed from such honesty. It should be the proper course, but we
are dealing with a freaking mind-control cult here. It doesn't work out as planned in many instances.
That's why we need to find some outlet to validate our correct views. JWD is such an outlet. A
better one for me is other exJW's face-to-face. I also am honest with family, friends, and co-workers
who are outside of my former JW world.
I see the necessity to be honest and say what we want to say. I just don't know that it
needs to be right away. Others have a different tipping point. I am close to mine.
I think if I didn't vent here on JWD, I would have told off some JW's long ago and they
would have excluded me from their lives. I wouldn't care, but for Mom and my wife.
That's the heart of the matter for many- loved ones.
For me, it has come down to this. I really don't care if you are a Mormon, a J.W., a Catholic, Buddist, whatever. My relatives can believe and spend their time doing whatever, for whoever's religion.
It's just not that important. Believe the moon is made out of green cheese if you want.
Warlock
There is a lot of talk on this forum about what people should do with their lives leaving the JWs. People ask for advice or they don't ask for it--but inevitably advice is given, and a lot of it. I've come to believe that we should start giving a lot less advice and just try to support each other. This board shouldn't be a conglomerate of soap operas where we all get to stick our hands in other people's lives and feel the squishiness. This is why I have negative reaction whenever Dawg pontificates about this issue.
Dawg--you spend a lot of energy trying to get other people to do what you've done. But we have completely different lives with completely different people in them. I know my family and I think I know what I need to do to survive exiting the JWs without alienating myself. And guess what? It's worked!
If doing what you've done has worked for you, then great. But you don't need to beat everyone else over the head with it.
OTWO-I've stated many times there's more than one way to skin a cat, but doing nothing? I just can't understand that. Cognac, thanks for the nice comments, you actually get what I'm saying as many do that have read my posts. As you know, I think you've made a great exit strategy and you're doing a fine job. Many times when folks get angry for what you say, it's because you've touched a nerve...not because your statements are wrong
I keep on stressing this point because how it makes you feel, I'm telling you all, that for over 19 years, I let information about my thoughts out slowly, then the tipping point... at my Uncle's funeral 2 February's ago, while listening to my family pontificate at dinner about who so and so is pioneering and the like, it hit me that I was sick to the core of them throwing their bullisi*t beliefs at me like I was inferior or something. I mean... wtf?
OK dawg, I've disagreed before with the "in your face" approach you've promoted, but in your situation here it seemed appropriate. Just reading your experience above gave me a little knot in my stomach. I wouldn't take that crap either.
You may have a hard time believing it but my family is NOT over the top with the JW-ness. As I've mentioned I helped deconvert my mom, my closest family member. I have about a dozen other family members I'd consider close. We have no elders and no current MSs. At least four of them have been DFed at some point.. others simply didn't get caught. Several are inactive. Most miss meetings frequently. Only one or two pioneers.
On the rare occassions that the conversation turns to "spiritual matters", I speak my piece. I am willing to disagree with the Society. If I were to come out and say "The Governing Body is crap, the Bible is ridiculous, and God is made-up," there is not much for me to gain, and a lot to lose. I share points privately with other family members. I don't observe shunning rules and haven't been to a meeting since the Memorial. I am trying to make progress with them, and even if I don't, my relationship with my family by no means revolves around the religion, so I don't see the need to jeopardize it on that basis.
OTWO-I've stated many times there's more than one way to skin a cat, but doing nothing?
Fully agree. Doing nothing is sad. I know many are doing that. We have
faders who are not really fading here on JWD, some still have titles in the cong.
I have done plenty with my family, but it was a serious of small explosions, not
a nuclear blast to them. Still, some are not ready for the fast pace I took, and
others would say they couldn't go as slow as I did.
I appreciate your thread, even though I am not fully there with you. People need to
know that there are alternatives, and sometimes just being straight-forward is the
best way to go. Being true to oneself is the ultimately most important thing. I have
a big problem with my self-identity now. Sure, I am a former JW, but the most
important person in my life cannot be told how much that describes me now. You
may be right in many ways, Dawg. If I just straight-up tell her about my exJW life,
I can move on. I just know that I can't undo it if it doesn't work out that well, so I am
proceeding with caution. I think others need to do the same, but by all means make
sure that you PROCEED. Don't bog down and stay in the JW prison or in the mindset
that you, yourself, are lower than dirt for causing trouble in your family. It's not you-
it's that damned cult, and maybe the loyal JW causing the trouble.
