OK, let me explain....

by dawg 60 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  White Dove

  I'm going to be "in your face" for the first and last time: I hate "in your face" kind of people. They lack tact and concern for the other person's feelings. In your facers tend to go off half cocked and leave destructive paths in their wakes.

  I'm for planning a good strategy over "in your face" point blank blows. If it's well timed and planned, then it can be effective without making myself look like a heartless, demonized apostate. Come on! Since when did sneakiness and tactical planning have bad results?

  I want my cake and I want to eat it, too. I took years in thought about getting my tattoos, and I will take a while to size up the situation in coming out of the aposta-closet.

  I think it's unconcionable to allow my 90 year old grandparents who love me so much, one of whom is an elder, to have their final thought be that I broke their hearts. Some of us have to wait...and plan...and scheme...and read Hassan's book...In order to live with myself, I have to do it MY WAY!
• 

  Open mind

  Two words Dawg:

  Wife.

  Kids.

  In the world of spiritual warfare, you are the Marine who storms the hill. And for you, it's been healing and has helped a few of your relatives see the light. Good for you.

  Some of us with spouses and children choose to learn from Morpheus and remain in the Matrix. Dodging bullet after bullet. Deceiving here, fake smiling there. We do all this so we can BE THERE during the quiet times when we can do some good one-on-one with our loved ones.

  From the outside you might think I'm "doing nothing". That is definitely NOT the case.

  Here's a little excerpt from my update of Friday at the DC.

  **************************

  There was one experience by some old guy who was at a New York convention in the 1950s where Freddy Franz said something about the "Princes" being right there in their midst. My wife gave me a "WTF?" look, and I leaned over and told her that the JWs used to teach that David, Abraham, Lot, etc. would be coming back early (1925) and that the Society bought a big mansion in San Diego for them to stay in.

  Guess what my daughter did?

  She wrote in her notepad: LIES!!!

  (I quickly gave her a look that could kill and she scribbled it out. Then I gave her a conspiratorial wink.)

  Mom's not ready for that much honesty. Yet.

  **********************************

  I am an active JW in good standing. One of the most dangerous weapons in Satan's arsenal. Even the F&D Slave recognizes this. Current and former elders who are not toeing the company line were the main target of this year's District Convention drama. (Simon & Scolio if you want to know their made-up names. )

  If I begin an observable fade before I have reached the hearts and minds of my wife and children, they will raise their mental defenses as the Borg tells them to. Hell, if they REALLY got the sense of the Drama, they'd be ratting me out already.

  I am DEFINITELY reaching my oldest daughter. My wife is S-L-O-W-L-Y realizing that the JWs are not exactly what they claim to be. My younger ones are coming along as well.

  When all is said and done, I may fail completely at reaching any of my family. (I highly doubt it will go that way, but I can't say for sure.) The price will be the time I have spent, but at least I will know I gave it my VERY BEST. If it's all starts to hit the fan at once somewhere down the line, I can always try what you're recommending then. But, I can never un-ring that bell.

  BTW, I don't recommend what I'm doing for anyone else.

  Everyone has to do what works best for them. "Each one will carry his own load."

  om

  p.s. Extra button-pushing points to the first person who says I'm putting my kids lives on the line with the "blood" issue.

  No. I'm not. If you need me to spell it out in detail I will.
• 

  Eyes Open

  Tough situations there.
  
  Open mind, it sounds like you have given your method of operation a lot of thought and I wish you all the best with it.
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  Awakened at Gilead

  OM:

  BTW, I don't recommend what I'm doing for anyone else.

  Everyone has to do what works best for them. "Each one will carry his own load."

  Excellent point, OM... While I understand dawg's viewpoint, and I think that some could be a little bolder in their exit from JWs, each person has to figure out the best way...

  Is it outright DA'ing like Sacolton, Truthsetsonefree, dawg, and others?

  Is it fading away by stopping going cold turkey like White Dove mentions on another thread today?

  Is it still going to meetings like BtheX, Still-in74, and others?

  OM hit it on the head... whatevr works for you. If you have the courage to face the org and the shunning, do it! If you need to be subtle, so be it! The important thing is that each one recognizes the truth about the lies we once believed. We are free mentally, and shouldn't impose our opinions on anyone else. We had enough of that as JWs...

  A@G (of the DA'd but respects the faders uneniable position class)
• 

  AWAKE&WATCHING

  Dawg and JG - I also believe that it is much better to be honest about how we now feel about the cult. Living any kind of lie is never conducive to good mental health.
  
  Having said that, I have great admiration for those "undercover" who are still active as they discreetly try to enlighten others. I can't think of anything harder than that and I have read several success stories here on the board.
  
  But to feel dishonest about posing as an interested one is not the same as living a lie in your daily life. I think there could be great results if handled properly. I am all for trying to reason with JW's while pretending to be an "interested one" or Bible "study".
  
  
  Whatever works. Sometimes it is an "in your face" method as Dawg attests to and other times it's a kinder, gentler approach.
  
  There have been some excellent examples of "Letters to the Editor" by posters such as AK Jeff and Gopher. I believe we all should be doing something to work against the mind control. I have found that my anti-informal witnessing is more rewarding than anything I ever did as an active member of the cult.
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  sf

  If you continue to take the abuse you take from these fools, then you're just continuing the cycle, you're still letting the faithful and dumb ass slave have some amount of control of you.

  Screw the damned adult jws. It's their innocent children that are at the mercy of these COWARDICE adults that is and should be paramount.

  DAWG, stay on track. Your momentum WILL gain.

  I've seen lots of boohooing going on this thread, that is just too insane to reply to. MY, I, ME. That is ALL I keep reading from them, as their fellow members continue to get caught up in the grinding gears of the Death Machine, known as WTBTS. No matter how they keep spinning their stupid excuses for keeping those gears grinding, the fact remains that they still have innocent blood on their hands.

  I mean, how does one actually live each day with that smell on their hands? Can they even smell it or are they DESENSITIZED?

  sKally
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  Open mind

  I love you too sKally.
• 

  reneeisorym

  Once I tried this and it seemed to work --
  
  I talked about heaven vs. paradise and just using the New Testament. Tell them that you think Jesus provided "new light."
  
  (This can be done with their Bible for an added bonus)
  
  You can go to revelation ch. 7 and show them how the great crowd is "in the temple". If you remember their rebuttal is that they are in the outer courtyard which is earth. The thing is that according to the Watchtower and according to all Interlinear Bibles, the word used there is the word for the inner sanctuary, not the outer courtyard. So the Great Crowd is said to be in the "inner sanctuary" and that's hard to deny.
  
  Also Rev 19:1 says the great crowd is in heaven. They will say that that's not the same great crowd but after the Rev 7 stuff, let's hope they see how flimsy that is.
  
  I like this because it is more like a Bible study approach and looks less like you are digging up the past and being difficult-- something that many will dismiss anyway as irrelevant. It makes you seem like a student and it allows you to stay in the question and student role and keep away from sounding like an apostate.
  
  They are likely to bring up Rev 21 -- If they do, emphasize these parts: "new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven" and "the dwelling place[a] of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God."
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  White Dove

  sKally, I'll do it Dawgs' way and your way if you both will be so kind as to take 100% responsibility for the fallout that's likely to occur. If it's not MY WAY, then whose way should it be, since it is a very personal exit from the WTS? Whose way should I follow out the khall door if not MY OWN WAY? The WTS took away or inhibited our use of deciding for ourselves how we will live our lives. Leaving is a lesson in and of itself. When we leave, we learn to be tougher and to rely more on ourselves than others who we expected to get us through tough emotional times. We learn independence. We must be allowed to exercise that independence so we can grow. By not following MY WAY, I would be returning to the vomit of being a sheeple and following a fukkin' guru or 10 or 18 of them telling me how I should exit and deal with loved ones. No thanks! Now that I'm out, I'll continue MY exit MY WAY. No one else can do it for me, unless you want to do it for me, but then you might screw up my family life. On second thought, no thanks. I'll do it MYSELF.
• 

  sf

  I'm not interested or concerned with your 'fallout'. Only that of your children.

  You are adults. {the same type of adults i had to DEAL WITH as a child, forced into this DEATH TRAP} You have NO EXCUSE. Zero. Zelch. Zip. Notta.

  But keep telling yourselves that you do. But don't, for a second, think I'll not voice my opinions and feelings them.

  I have no pity for the hypocrites on this forum, and off. And that is my right to think and feel this way. Deal with it, or don't. Doesn't matter what you active, hypocritical jw do here. It's painfully obvious you aren't going to do what it takes to expose the truth as lies. And I absolutely mean painful.

  Watching you all sit here, mingling with those your leaders instruct you not to deal with, waiting for YOU to make the right stance...for the sake of the innocent in YOUR congregations. Actually, it's down right excruciating to WITNESS the hypocrisy that is so blatant here, as kids lives and well being hang on YOUR EXCUSES!

  Now, who is up for a chat in gabbly? Any active elders care to discuss your 'excuses', live?

  sKally