I'm a bad American

by Bendrr 113 Replies latest jw friends

  • jelly
    jelly

    Bigboi,

    I am not sure I understand you 100% (its late and I am tired). Racism is still a problem in America, it was worse in the 60’s and 70’s but it is still a problem that needs to be addressed. My point is that I don’t feel that dwelling on the past, silencing people who voice different opinions by calling them bigots, or reverse racism in the form of affirmative action are solutions.

    I would like to see:
    1 tougher laws and penalties on companies that get caught for discrimination
    Companies understand money if you make discrimination unprofitable it will stop
    2 Every public school should get money based on student population and not local real estate tax
    This has not only hurt minority children but also the children of everyone in poorer neighborhoods

    Okay now on to free land:

    The land was free but getting there was not. People had to often sell everything they had to make the trip and many of them did die. In America there is still cheap land in the Midwest if you want to try farming look at the land prices in Utah, Montana, North Dokato and places around there. No one in my family moved out west until 1965 no free land by then we had to buy it just like everyone else.

    Jelly

  • bigboi
    bigboi
    I am not sure I understand you 100% (its late and I am tired).

    Same here. I may not be makin sense.

    Racism is still a problem in America, it was worse in the 60’s and 70’s but it is still a problem that needs to be addressed. My point is that I don’t feel that dwelling on the past, silencing people who voice different opinions by calling them bigots, or reverse racism in the form of affirmative action are solutions.
    True point about racism. I still don't understand why u think this issue is about dwelling on the past. This isn't about holding grudges but about sause and effect. the fact is that black ppl were disenfranchised as a rule in this society for hundreds of yrs. The condition that you see a good proportion of them in today has a great deal to do with that social policy.
    White Men Can't Jump

    By Andrew Wyllie

    Is affirmative action the functional equivalent of discrimination against white males?
    In 1994, the Los Angeles Fire Department prohibited 5,000 applicants from taking the firefighter entrance exam because they were white. Not black. Not even brown, yellow, or red. White.

    When things like this happen, it’s not hard to see why affirmative action is often described as discrimination against white males. Everyone knows someone who knows someone who was passed over for promotion by the stereotypical “less qualified black applicant” because the company was seeking to fill a quota. Many young white men say that growing up as a white boy in America today is the worst turn of luck anybody could get.

    But are people overreacting? Personnel numbers suggest they may be. 95% of all senior managers, vice presidents and above, are white men, even though they only make up 43% of the entire workforce. In contrast, black men only make up 4% of middle management positions. And women only make 70% of the money that white men do. When it comes down to it, white males still control virtually everything in America. What are they complaining about?

    Is it possible that the affirmative action system gives unqualified minorities an unfair advantage over people that are fully qualified? Or are white men getting what they deserve after years as the beneficiaries of a racist system? Are they overreacting to a few isolated events?

    The land was free but getting there was not. People had to often sell everything they had to make the trip and many of them did die.
    About the time of this trek westward to settle the land that was given away free to white European-Americans, how many African-Americans at that time would have had possessions to sell to make that same trek? How many of them made that trek? If it ain't a number comparable to the millions of Europeans that did, why is that so?

    In America there is still cheap land in the Midwest if you want to try farming look at the land prices in Utah, Montana, North Dokato and places around there.
    I think there's a reason why the land up there is so cheap. Sorry but farming ain't my forte'.

    No one in my family moved out west until 1965 no free land by then we had to buy it just like everyone else.
    Guess they missed out. Choices, choices. At least they had em to make.

    ONE....

    bigboi

    Murder is a tough thing to digest. It's a slow process and the WTBTS's got nuthin but time.

  • jelly
    jelly

    My point simply put is this:

    FREE SPEECH:
    I think there is a problem with free speech in America today. Basically there are a large number (not the majority) of people that feel free speech is the freedom people have to agree with their viewpoint. Anyone that expresses a conservative view and happens to be white is automatically labeled a racist. I really don’t think the poster listed any opinions that wouldn’t be shared by JC Watts , Alan Keyes, or Clarence Thomas. Does that mean these men are ‘uncle toms’ or does simply the fact that they are black allow them to state opinions white men cannot and if so is that right. I think not.

    RACISM and THE PAST:

    Black people were screwed in America. Racism is still a problem in America, both black racism and white racism. To solve this I feel we have to make a choice focus on the past or look to the future. Affirmative Action just basically tries to right the wrongs on the black community by repeating them on the white community. This just leads to less cohesive race relations and more prejudice. It’s the politics of destruction; this happened to us now it happens to you. I think a more positive approach would be to have very stiff financial penalties for companies that engage in discriminatory hiring practices. Companies understand money if you make racism expensive it will go away. However coupled with the vigorous prosecution of laws I believe job training, inexpensive university education, and well funded public schools must be made available to everyone.

    Some of the discrepancies in CEO’s are due to several reasons. One the white community is presently bettered educated than the black (more white people go to and finish college). I did not say smarter just better educated. This is due to several reasons one is the inadequately funded public schools in not only black but also all poor neighborhoods. I think that all schools should be funded on the student population and not the surrounding areas real estate tax rev. (What this causes is very rich neighborhoods tend to have amazingly nice public schools with more resources and higher pay for teachers; this naturally draws a higher quality teacher to the richer neighborhoods)

    CONCLUSION:
    This was kinda long winded but I feel we need to ‘grow out’ of racism by creating opportunities (through training and education), and punishing discriminatory companies; not punishing people for their lack of pigment. I also feel we should not just label people racist simply because they do not agree with our viewpoint.

    Jelly

  • ashitaka
    ashitaka

    Good thread, interesting to see people fight like this. I have an opinion, but I'm a pussy. I'm not touching this with a 10 foot pole, which I think is a statement enough about the state of our nation.

    ashi

  • Tina
    Tina

    "The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime,welfare mothers,immigrants and aliens,the more you control all the people"
    Noam Chomsky

    Vive Bene
    Spesso L'amore
    Di Risata Molto!!!

  • Julie
    Julie

    Well I never thought I would say THIS but....I agree with bigboi, the person who wrote this doesn't know what they are talking about. I think we can thank the mis-information spreading hate-mongers like Rush Limbaugh and Gordon Liddy etc. for helping to fuel this narrow, dark mindset.

    Just proves we have so far to go here in America. Sad.

    Julie

  • Seeker
    Seeker
    I really do hope that my tax dollar goes out to those people who use the welfare system for what it was intended for (to help people out who need it) but I don't think that it should go to support someone who isn't trying to better their life any and is just looking for a check so they can continue their irresponsibleness.

    Such as the large American corporations who are about to get back billions in corporate welfare thanks to the latest economic stimulus package put together by the Bush team.

    People who rail againt the almost mythical crack-addicted welfare recipients never seem to squeak when Ford or GM gets to pocket billions of our tax dollars just because they have a good lobby in Washington.

    Guess I'm a bad American for even noticing.

    Oh yes, the original posting in this thread: ideaological rubbish. If not understanding the actual issues involved makes you a bad American, the author of that piece is one of the worst.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    but somehow white people are racist for not celebrating kawanza.

    Ah, there, you made my point better than I could. See, that's the thing, no one I'm aware of is asking white people to celebrate kwanzaa, and no one I'm aware of is suggesting that white poeple are racist for declining to celebrate kwanzaa. Knowing a bit about people and racist, I believe that a person feeling any such pressure, is likely feeling it internally, due to their being a racist, uncomfortable with other americans making different choices and traditions than their own.

    I will admit that perhaps the author of this little internet jewel had a crucified black-barbie-celebrates-kwanzaa doll burned on his lawn. In which case I take back everything I've said; I'd hate black people to if that happened to me. However, nothing like that has ever happened to me, so I can say, like so many white americans, "some of my best friends are black". It happens to be a bald faced lie at this point in time, but no more so than when said by the average cracker. I did have some black friends, but they kept pressuring me to "get jiggy wid it", so I dropped them like a red-headed stepchild in the spirit of 1Cor. 15:33.

    Does that make me bad?

  • Seeker
    Seeker
    Basically there are a large number (not the majority) of people that feel free speech is the freedom people have to agree with their viewpoint.

    Quite correct, and a real problem in my opinion.

    Anyone that expresses a conservative view and happens to be white is automatically labeled a racist.
    Well, no, anyone who expresses a conservative view and happens to be white and happens to be racist is automatically labeled a racist. I know many white conservatives who are not racist.

    I really don’t think the poster listed any opinions that wouldn’t be shared by JC Watts , Alan Keyes, or Clarence Thomas. Does that mean these men are ‘uncle toms’ or does simply the fact that they are black allow them to state opinions white men cannot and if so is that right.
    I seem to have missed something. As far as I have ever known, Watts and Thomas are very much considered uncle toms. It's not just their stand that makes them such, but the reasoning they use to reach that stand that makes them unpopular.
  • Julie
    Julie

    Hi Seeker,

    I thought of you when I read the inital post in this thread. Glad you addressed it. I am always glad to see my view aligns with those who I consider brilliant. We find affirmation where we can I guess.

    Take care dear--
    Julie

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