I'm a bad American

by Bendrr 113 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  teejay

  Okay, I didn't really want to step into the muck of this thread (yeah, right!) considering the All-American, Red, White, and Blue viewpoint espoused by the initial post, but my bud, Master DannyB called me out, so...

  You must be a masochist.

  Why... whatever do you mean?!!! I've heard that statement pointed in my direction before and I want you to know that I resemble... er, resent that remark. I was being quite sincere, I'll have you know. I was deeply moved, feeling the love dripping from Julie's admission for a once-upon-a-time board adversary.

  If I may break into another love-fest that's currently breaking out, I'd like to comment on something you said, Seeker.

  You said: Watts and Thomas are very much considered uncle toms. It's not just their stand that makes them such, but the reasoning they use to reach that stand that makes them unpopular.

  Like a lot of your views, the first part of the above statement I can't disagree with. Many in the black community do indeed consider them that way, fairly or otherwise.

  It's the second part that I wanted to comment on. Perhaps you should amend your comment to say that they are unpopular "with some," or something like that. There is no question that both Watts and Thomas are extremely popular with many people, just not a high percentage (majority?) of black people.

  Personally, I find Thomas to be way easier to take than Watts. I've seen a couple of Sir Thomas' speeches on C-Span and find that I more often agree with his viewpoints than disagree. Sometimes he can be downright inspirational. His being called an Uncle Tom has not always been fair, being the occasional dissenting voice in the black, politically correct collective in Washington.

  Watts is, on the other hand, very greasy. Don't care much for him.

  later,
  tj

  Use the talents you possess, for the woods would be a very silent place if no birds sang except for the best. - unknown
• 

  rhett

  The point of this article is to demonstrate how white males dominate women and blacks? WHAT?!?!?!?! Where the f**ck does the author say that? Where? When I read it I read the words of someone who was tired of being politcally correct. It was of someone who may not personally believe in certain things but does respect them. Just because some one says you're the only one that is responsible for your actions (which is really rare these days) does NOT mean that they are trying oppress anyone!

  I don't need to fight
  To prove I'm right
  I don't need to be forgiven.
• 

  DannyBear

  Big,

  The question is, will people like you, really listen to the Rush Limbaugh's, Ken Hamblins, JW Watts, Thomases, of the world? Of will you continue to isolate these 'rebels' from the masses, as 'uncle toms'?

  Once you can say that you have given every consideration to the 'conservative' side, and looked past the bias formented by so-called class leader's (Farakon, Jackson) who have their own agenda and standing to worry about, one cannot say with all certainty that 'conservative' methods, will not work.

  It amazes me how much Jackon and other black leader's decried the changes made in welfare several years ago. They predicted doom and gloom. Just the opposite happened. Requiring welfare receipients to work after so long a time, has been adopted in almost every state. It works. It was a conservative idea.

  The reason Iam a conservative is because of the underbelly of the two philosophies. Democrats put their trust in government to solve problems, Republicans put their trust in people to do so. I know that sounds very simplistic, but it is what I see in reality.

  Beaurocratic organization, will never take the place of people working to make things better for themselves and the community at large. We know that better than anyone having been released from such tyranny of thought and organized effort WTBS.

  Danny
• 

  teejay

  Wendy?

  there has GOT to be more to the story. are you sure you aren't leaving something out?

  was the punchER a Pakistani? what's up with getting hit in the face and THEN getting arrested. Tom ain't black, is he? sure sounds like it.
• 

  DannyBear

  Tj,

  Ok then, I must admit that it was refreshing to see Julie actually agree with Big. Knowing a little of the history, I must give her credit where credit is due. Good for you Julie.

  My masochist comment was refering to the exchanges between Seeker and myself. He and I have had sparks fly, since the day we met in cyber-space, but I thought things were on the up and up....Seeker I will continue to read your comments, even if you ignore mine.

  Anyway T the conversation turned, and Big and I have been tossing a few. Any comments?

  Danny
• 

  bigboi

  Why is it so difficult to visualize what actually transpired in America? How many blacks were even available or could speak the english language, when the founder's wrote the declaration of independence or our national constitution. There were a few educated blacks at that time...but to few to make an impact.

  Well, there quite possibly were millions on blacks in this country when the Constitution was penned. Ever hear of the Three-Fifths Compromise? Many of them had already been here for generations prior too and were most certainly available,(could also speak the English language albeit broken English) but maybe not so available because most of them were enslaved at that time.

  It really was not until the the late 60's that educational opportunities even opened for US blacks, I think in the few short years since that happened, there has been a good showing of blacks now taking the lead, with many more to come.

  That is the very reason why I think affirmative action is an important program. Over 400 yrs blacks were denied the opportunity to establish themselves. What's wrong with a government policy that just ensures that at lesst in some instances SOME of them are allowed a shot. Really that's all they get is just a shot. If a affirmtive action recepient flunks out of school, then they flunk out. If they don't do a good job they get fired. I don't see any real advantage in that.

  So my point is, our culture and history is made by who went before us, those who did pioneer, explore and settle this land we call America, should not be held in disripute, just because they were white.

  Who's holding all the accomplishments that they made in ill-repute. Not me, alls I'm sayin is they had the opportunity to do those things beause they were white.

  Reality is often hidden by wishful thinking, that dosen't change one iota the facts.

  I couldn't have said it better myself.

  ONE....

  bigboi

  Murder is a tough thing to digest. It's a slow process and the WTBTS's got nuthin but time.
• 

  bigboi

  Rhett:

  Now see main. there you go why'd you cuss me out. And to think I was gonna compliment on your baby boy and tell ya I thought he was cute.

  I think we have our articles crossed up.

  ONE....

  bigboi

  Murder is a tough thing to digest. It's a slow process and the WTBTS's got nuthin but time.
• 

  teejay

  Dan,

  Too many year's of creating a false dependence on government to solve problems.

  I could comment on a lot of what you said my Friend, but I'll use just this one as a jumping off point. Minorities, whether they be first-generation Irish, Italian, German, African or Spanish American have without exception wanted to taste their share of the American dream unaided and, more importantly, unimpeded by forces intent on denying them of such. They have one and all wanted to stand on their own.

  The need for government intervention/assistance arose as a direct result of the very governmental policies (or inaction) that has historically led to abuses, including the denial of even basic human rights and the denial of a truly free marketplace where hard work and personal initiative, regardless of color or national origin, was rewarded. I think you'd agree with this.

  While there is still room for improvement, America has come a long way to leveling the playing field. Politically, I think you'd find many blacks, if they were open and honest, reveal a very deep conservative streak in many areas. For example, industrious blacks and Latinos have always disdained those of their race who they consider lazy or otherwise wantonly leeching off the system. It's when such conservatism tends to turn its back on the less fortunate that blacks begin to recoil, being more willing to display liberal views. Historically, over the years they are more likely to have been denied needed help from the powers that were put in place for that very purpose.

  Just my opinion. Don't mean to sound dogmatic or to seem to speak for all blacks everywhere, so don't jump on me.... <g>

  later,
  tj

  Use the talents you possess, for the woods would be a very silent place if no birds sang except for the best. - unknown
• 

  DannyBear

  Tj,

  I can take no issue with what you just stated. No jumping required. After reading Mommy's comments, sounds like we better be very careful when and where we make any comments along these lines, eh? WOW, like you I wish she would have put a little more of the details involved, something is missing, it seems.

  Like I said to Big, we (America) has come along way....with many miles ahead....in the area of tolerance and acceptance. This observation coming from your truly, who sat on the buses in the deep south with signs directing 'coloreds to the back of the bus' and signs at rest rooms 'whites only', drinking fountains, theaters, dry cleaning shops, you name it I witnessed it, first hand.

  I think many who did not actually witness or live through that time period, may have a hard time accepting what I say. But overall the climate in this country today, is so much opposite from what it was just 30yrs ago, it is palpable to guy like me.

  Now with the country united in a common cause, Iam hoping the end result will be even a more integrated 'spirit' of acceptance and tolerance.

  You are right, we probably will still need the goverment to take action on egregious violations of civil rights. But I think less and less, as those minorities now participating in government and industry make themselves known.

  Danny
• 

  bigboi

  Danny I mised this one:

  The question is, will people like you, really listen to the Rush Limbaugh's, Ken Hamblins, JW Watts, Thomases, of the world? Of will you continue to isolate these 'rebels' from the masses, as 'uncle toms'?

  Not until I hear something worth listeneing to. Or I see republicans doing something the really benefits ppl like me.

  Once you can say that you have given every consideration to the 'conservative' side, and looked past the bias formented by so-called class leader's (Farakon, Jackson) who have their own agenda and standing to worry about, one cannot say with all certainty that 'conservative' methods, will not work.

  True indeed, true indeed.

  It amazes me how much Jackon and other black leader's decried the changes made in welfare several years ago. They predicted doom and gloom. Just the opposite happened. Requiring welfare receipients to work after so long a time, has been adopted in almost every state. It works. It was a conservative idea.

  The changes wrought by welfare reform won't be seen for at least another 10yrs,imo. Also I think the a good economy sorta softened the blow a lot of these poor women and children took. However I've seen a few speacial reports on television that are beginning to show the adverse effects these policies are having on poor women and their children. Just because welfare rolls are down doesn't mean the lines at the soup kitchen are gettin any shorter.

  The reason Iam a conservative is because of the underbelly of the two philosophies. Democrats put their trust in government to solve problems, Republicans put their trust in people to do so. I know that sounds very simplistic, but it is what I see in reality.

  That may be true but who exactly are the ppl that Republicans trust to do whatever. Therein is my dilemma.

  Beaurocratic organization, will never take the place of people working to make things better for themselves and the community at large. We know that better than anyone having been released from such tyranny of thought and organized effort WTBS.

  In terms of free thinking and control of one's life, you are right. In terms of social and political policy, it's a bit more complex. The government works in behalf of ppl everyday,imo one of the best functions of government is to be of service to it's citizens. It may not always be efficient but imo it's the best way to make sure that a nation's resources are used fairly in the interests of all it's citizens.

  ONE....

  bigboi

  Danny

  Murder is a tough thing to digest. It's a slow process and the WTBTS's got nuthin but time.