Zev's UN/WTS Scandal Web Site - Part 2

by hawkaw 122 Replies latest jw friends

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  hawkaw

  I see Joe still doesn't know how to use the phone.

  I also see Joe doesn't read because if he did (even my little blurb on Zev's) site tells the world the the main criteria were formed in 1968 thanks to ECOSOC Resolutions 1296 and 1997.

  Some one mentioned about not seeing the scanned documents. All scanned documents including the UN Hoffel letter (and the 1968 Resolutions) are located at Zev's site, Randy's site, Kent's site and I think Trevor has a bunch too. These are just some of the many places you will find it. I also think Mike's site has them too.

  One, how do you know Joe is gone?

  hawk
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  zev

  maybe joe actually read the evidence, hawk

  -Zev
  Learn about the Wtbts and the U.N.
  ** http://www.geocities.com/plowbitch69 **
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  one

  Joe may be doing some more reading, or playing phone tag with the UN
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  JosephAlward

  In regards to my wish to see a copy of the application form on which some forum members believe the Watchtower's representatives affirm that they accept the aims and goals of the United Nations, Hawkaw states

  Joe,I have not obtained a copy of the paper you desire because the Department of Public Information refuses to release the file.

  Has anyone asked Paul Hoeffel to provide a copy of a blank form from 1991, or at least a copy of an already completed form, with all of the information whited out? If not, why not? I would think that would represent virtually conclusive proof that the Watchtower representatives did, indeed, sign their names in 1991 to a paper which asked them to agree to the goals of the United Nations. Surely the Department of Public Information could have no objection to providing a blank copy of the application form.

  I will make this request by telephone tomorrow (Wednesday), but I don't have high hopes of hearing back from them quickly; I emailed them yesterday, and there's been no response back yet.

  Joseph F. Alward
  "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

  * http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html
• 

  JosephAlward

  Saint Satan presented a description of Watchtower doctrine that interested me very much:

  One of their main doctrines is that there are two orgs: jehovahs, made up of jesus, good angels and jws. On the opposing side is the devil, demons and all the people. There is supposed to be a huge contest between god and the devil. Satan is supposed to have challenged that he and the people are able to do well without gods directions. If humans succeed in making this earth peaceful, stopping crime etc, it would prove the devil right and god wrong. Jws are to support gods side of this contest at all times. Business, religion and politics are claimed to be satans main tools on the earth. The un is the presumed to be the main satanic political weapon which satan is using to prove mankind is capable of reaching peace without god.

  Thus, if the United Nations appears in the eyes of the public to be succeeding--or at least making progress--in its stated goal of improving life on earth, then this would make it harder for the Watchtower to hold on to its current members and recruit new ones.

  This makes sense to me, but I haven't seen a Watchtower article that backs this up. Can anyone provide it?

  Joseph F. Alward
  "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

  * http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html
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  JosephAlward

  We have already had testimony from forum members that misleading the enemy is an accepted practice by the Watchtower, and surely the purple beast is a great enemy, indeed. Thus, it would be entirely consistent with Watchtower teachings for it to deceive the United Nations.

  What I would like to have help with is this: Are there any teachings which indicate that Jehovah's Witnesses could on occasion be proactive in an effort to weaken the beast? Would it be appropriate, for example, for a JW or a governing body representative knowingly to exaggerate the shortcomings of the United Nations, paint it in a false light, or highlight its failures while downplaying its successes? Would Jehovah approve of that?

  Joseph F. Alward
  "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

  * http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html
• 

  SixofNine

  Thus, it would be entirely consistent with Watchtower teachings for it to deceive the United Nations.

  That is false. What teaching do you believe it would be consistant with, specifically?

  Maybe the word you used just now is relevant to this, "proactive". NEVER has the WT indicated that proactive lying, of any sort, at any time, is ok, at least not that I'm aware of. If, in fact they have, it has been rare and obscure. It is NOT an acceptable thing to JW's, and perhaps that is what you are missing. That and the fact that getting any sort of help from the beast, but especially giving any sort of help to the beast, is totally counter to witness principles. After all, it is "the beast", you know.

  We were arrogant and delusional as witnesses Joseph, but we were not unprincipled.
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  JosephAlward

  I cannot understand why you--or any JW would think that one would have to lack "principles" before they could lie to the beast. That seems utterly nonsensical. After all, it is the beast, you know. Are you sure that's what you wanted to say?

  Joseph F. Alward
  "Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

  * http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html
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  mommy

  Joe,
  I answered that question WAY back on page two...did you read it? Oh I forget, you like the easy way out, and people handing you the answers three or four times before you actually get it So here it is again, let me know if you need to see it once more okay?

  Hey Joseph,
  It is not about lieing to the UN to further their work, it is that the WTBTS should never have even been associated in the first place. Time and again in their literature they have lumped together the prophecied fate of the UN and any who associate with it.

  wendy

  When I leave, you will know I have been here
• 

  hawkaw

  I see Joe is doing his "act" thing again. Remember this guy says he is not a Witness. Well I am not a Witness either. Yet I seem to understand this scandal. Its comparable to the Pope quietly supporting abortion!

  If he bothered to read he would realize the criteria was set up in 1968 in Resolutions 1296 and 1297 of the ECOSOC committee of the UN. It layes out the criteria and Paul Hoeffel's October 11, 2001 letter also layes out the criteria that had to be followed by the Watchtower. Never mind that if the criteria chnaged over the years, they would still have to follow it.

  You know that don't you Joe but you lead these poor Witnesses and ex-Witnesses around and around on this board - shame on you - you are truly an _____.

  Let's see now. You sent an Email and then you blabed about phoning .... hmmm .... why phone if you sent an Email ..... why come this board and start taking about it again when you haven't got all the information yet ...

  You know what I think? I think you really our a society man.

  Who else would keep at this without thinking all of this through.

  All you are doing is stirring the pot. I know what the 1994 Brochure states and oh by the way it has been published - idiot. The WTS had to write a letter to DPI just to get an application form. I know what the Criteria was in 1968 and the main two criteria are still the same now - idiot.

  Lets see now he won't accept an official letter from DPI's Paul Hoeffel but he wants to see a blank form. I asked that question idiot and they were unwilling to give it up and are unwilling to give up someone elses form. I guess an official letter from DPI was not good enough for an idiot.

  You must have starred in the movie "Dumb and Dumber".

  Enough. I have had it - get off this thread you jerk.

  hawk