How many faiths could stand the sort of scrutiny this site gives the WTs?
When a group claims to be the mouth peice of Yahweh, and fails miserably, what other result would you expect? Your captive of a concept.
Defence of watchtower society Links
by reniaa 343 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
ellderwho
-
reniaa
How many faiths could stand the sort of scrutiny this site gives the WTs?
When a group claims to be the mouth peice of Yahweh, and fails miserably, what other result would you expect? Your captive of a concept.Erm how many faiths do not say they are the mouthpiece of God? None! they all do.....you even get it on here I've lost count the times quite a few on here say to me "I have holy spirit now God tells me what is the right thing to believe!" they are advertising they have their own personal mouthpiece..
I am not a captive, I've made a judgement on comparison and bible study and to be honest It was always a atheism or Jw choice for me, because the inconsistancy of the trinity doctrine never got my vote.
Reniaa
-
OnTheWayOut
It was always a atheism or Jw choice for me, because the inconsistancy of the trinity doctrine never got my vote.
Not that you haven't been told this before, but
1. There are others out there who are not Trinitarians.
2. There are other choices besides Christianity if you reject it.
3. You don't need to be part of organized religion if you want to worship. -
passwordprotected
reniaa said;
"Erm how many faiths do not say they are the mouthpiece of God? None! they all do.....you even get it on here I've lost count the times quite a few on here say to me "I have holy spirit now God tells me what is the right thing to believe!" they are advertising they have their own personal mouthpiece.. I am not a captive, I've made a judgement on comparison and bible study and to be honest It was always a atheism or Jw choice for me, because the inconsistancy of the trinity doctrine never got my vote. Reniaa"
A religious group is not the same thing as a faith. Jesus said there was one true faith, not one true religious group. So while some groups do bad things in the name of religion, that is in no way the same thing as someone doing something in the name of their faith.
Religious groups impose rules and regulations, faiths do not.
Religious groups may claim to be the mouthpiece of God, how many faiths do?
You're doing the classic JW thing in equating a group or organisation with faith, when in fact that are completely different concepts. -
reniaa
hi one the way out
your points are correct but since 99% of christianity does do the trinity thing the few that don't? I have checked them out, the christeldelphians appealed the most but they don't believe in satan and have a lot of jewish slant in their teachings.
and as for having a faith just for myself...
passwordprotected your making a similar point
Religious groups may claim to be the mouthpiece of God, how many faiths do?
You're doing the classic JW thing in equating a group or organisation with faith, when in fact that are completely different concepts.I have faith and for me it would be in Jehovah how do I express that faith? the NT lends itself to a support group environment, a faith of one is a lonely place to be and not an easy road to walk, Accept for certain times in my life i've always had faith but it is more than a word it is a condition that brings forth actions.
Reniaa
-
passwordprotected
Reniaa, how many faiths claim to speak for God? If your faith means that you have to be part of the WTS and follow the directions of the GB, then that's fine. You'll be held accountable for the religious group your faith compels you to be part of. What you, and every other JW should realise, is that each individual will render an account to Christ Jesus in his role as judge.
When that time comes, you will be judged for your actions and being part of a group won't protect or excuse you. So, if the group you're led by takes you away from Christ, causes you to not give him the same honour as you give Jehovah, you'll be held accountable for that.
The group won't, but theindividuals associated with the group will. That's why Paul said Christians were to work out their OWN salvation with fear and trembling. It won't be an excuse to say, "But the Governing Body told me...". -
OUTLAW
StAnn..You are absolutely correct about 1975..That was a real big deal in those times..Everyone talked about it,constantly..I remember people selling their homes,to pioneer till 1975..Come 1975 they were out of money and had no home of their own..Many were too old to start over,it was devastating for them.........Now it never happened..What a load of BullSh*t!!..LOL!!.....................................Reniaa..I`m still waiting for Question`s #2 and #3 to be answered................................
...OUTLAW -
Guest with Questions
Barry: In the issue of the cross the WT beleives it is so important it is one of the points of doctrine right in the baptisimal statement. I cant think of any church that is so petty.
You brought up the baptism. I don't know if Renaia realizes that the baptism questions were changed in 1985. I wonder if she can show us where in the bible that it states that a person has to answer a bunch of questions prior to being baptized. I heard 100 but I can't imagine this being true. I'd be interested to know what these questions are. All quotes from Watchtower are in red.
Did the eunuch have to answer questions prior to being baptized? Was he required to become a member of an organization? Sorry, he didn't need to back then. Only if he was alive today and got baptized after 1985.
Prior to 1985 Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him the Father through his Son Christ Jesus?
On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Christ Jesus and through the Bible under the enlightenment of the holy spirit?
After 1985 On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will? (what happened to the need of salvation?)
Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization?’
Renaia: it's easy to tell which people on here were once witnesses and which are just ones repeating what is the group line and various things come up again and again.
Because I have never been a witness, could I be one of the people you believe is just parroting what the people here on JWD are saying? Could it be that the very thing you accuse others of could be applied to you; that whatever the organization tells you, you parrot?
You say that you go by doctrine. Many people here have brought up doctrine but because it's contrary to your views, you dismiss it. I sense that many here are sincere and right. I sense you are sincere and wrong. I go by what I read in my Bible and it's not in allignment with JW doctrine.
Independant Thinking: I'm curious to know what you think about independant thinking, something that is highly discouraged within the org. How can you have discernment and at the same time avoid independant thinking?
This is what the Bible says:
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
This is what the organization says:
"Avoid Independent Thinking" Watchtower Jan. 15 1983.
....some who point out that the organization has had to make some adjustments before, and so they argue: "This shows that we have to make up our own mind on what to believe." This is independent thinking. Why is it so dangerous?
Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983.....In Jehovah's organization it is not necessary to spend a lot of time and energy in research, for there are brothers in the organization who are assigned to that very thing.... ,Watchtower June 1, 1967.
From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude...They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such 'Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago... Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1981.
First, since "oneness" is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave. Watchtower, Aug. 1, 2001.
Renaia, I had two witness women come to the door last week. I mentioned independant thinking. The one woman (pretending to be annoyed) with her hands on her hips, swaying them sideways, said, "so we should go to the faithful and discreet slave and say screw you. This woman had been in for a long time. Do you think she was just influenced by me because I'm not a witness; that I may be a tool of the devil? Needless to say I was not impressed.
You do have stamina to come back each time. Personally I wish I had the time for this. You obviously have brought up a couple of topics that are interesting to a lot of people, seeing all the responses and amount of viewing. But I have to wonder why you come here. To convince others?, to convince yourself?, or to purge yourself of the wrongs you have done; that through all this you may rectify what you have done in your life? In that case you are working for your salvation. You repent of your sins, don't try to do them again, and you will be forgiven. We all sin, we all need to be forgiven by God, but I'm wondering if you have forgiven yourself.
No faith run by and full of imperfect people can stand that sort of scrutiny, That why I go with doctrine and not imperfection issues.
You think other religions haven't been so severely scrutinized? Again, why do you give the organization free reign to make mistakes; that they are imperfect men, but when "Christendom" makes mistakes we are tools of the devil. This organization teaches that they are the sole channel through which God speaks. Don't you think, if God was going to use a group through which He spoke, that He would make sure that this group didn't make so many mistakes? Did Moses keep having to go up the mountain to change the ten commandments because he kept making mistakes, did Noah keep redoing his boat because he kept making so many mistakes?
I also go by doctrine, as many here do. That's why I have never been, never will be a witness.
Renaia, I'm curious to know if you read my other response to this thread, re Eternal Life? Anyway I must go. Things to do. Have a good evening.
-
Homerovah the Almighty
Its important to remember that the JWS have always orchestrated itself around its publishings, from day 1
and exactly what the publishers / employees are to do in their doctrinal beliefs.
Look at it as religion or look at as a large and powerful publishing company.
It is this aspect of this organization alone when putting it under investigation or honest scrutiny in its proclaimed guidance..
Adverse commercialism was one of the reasons that I left, they seemed to deter what true faith means in face of cultivating power and money.
Take care folks
-
OnTheWayOut
I have faith and for me it would be in Jehovah
I keep trying to get away from the Reniaa threads and they draw me back.
I think I have it figured out. I have been mad at myself for overlooking the
truth under my nose in favor of complicated "blind faith."
Reniaa reminds me of myself when I first came to the JW's. It's that simple.Blind faith over reality.
...OUTLAW