Shamus, I know what you're saying, and I vow not to even LOOK at threads she starts, but it's like a train wreck; I just can't look away!
StAnn
Defence of watchtower society Links
by reniaa 343 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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ellderwho
Interesting little tidbit I found while sifting through this thread:
Classic misconception of the Jw apologist...
renia writes
I know Jehovah's witnesses to be a changing org since I was a child refining process is a common practise for them,
Look at how the witness claims an adapting faith, admiting the org has changed over the years.
If the FDS has been getting there direction directly from Jehovah why the need for change, did someone in the towers not receive the information clearly?
Does Jehovah have to repeat himself on the matter of who gets ressurected from the city of Sodom?
A prophet of Jehovah has to have a 100% record of repeating exactly what saith the LORD. Or we are told to ingnore them.
Oh the shifting sands of WT theology....Sad
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ellderwho
Reniaa has hit an run on this thread http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/167153/21.ashx
She was really pressed on some issues and just bailed.
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OBVES
Go to alt.religion.jehovahs-witn ( google group ) and see my posts there ( by OBVES ) and see how I am defending the Jehovah's Witnesses with their Watchtower . I am not a member of their organization and came to a much different understanding of the Bible and yet using that new understanding I am defending Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower .
Unquestionably they are the best christian religious organization on this face of the earth.
You should check my post history there and also go to Jehovah's Witness Online where I am posting a lot on dating based on the Bible.
One example :
1037 BC - 1034 BC - 1027 BC - 607 BC - 537 BC - 1914 AD - 1984 AD - 1991 AD - 1994 AD = 3030 years.
By this alone we can know that one day in a symbolic week can mean 1010 years.
10 BC + 20 years = 11 AD + 2000 years = 2011 AD ( two days - the last days of the present world order ).
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OBVES
7 BC = 1879 AD ; 2 BC = 1884 AD ; 11 AD = 1891 AD ; 29 AD = 1914 AD ; 33 AD = 1918 AD ; 36 AD = 1921 AD .
29 AD - 33 AD - 36 AD - 70 AD - 106 AD = 1991 AD - 1988 AD - 1984 AD - 1950 AD - 1914 AD.
google groups : alt.religion.jehovahs-witn ; alt.bible ; alt.apocalypse to go deeply into details .
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Leolaia
The apology exhibiting such "candor" was an impersonal "it is to be regretted" statement:
*** w80 3/15 p. 17 par. 5 Choosing the Best Way of Life ***
With the appearance of the book Life Everlasting—in Freedom of the Sons of God, and its comments as to how appropriate it would be for the millennial reign of Christ to parallel the seventh millennium of man’s existence, considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975. There were statements made then, and thereafter, stressing that this was only a possibility. Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, there were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility. It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated.
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wozadummy
RENIA.....Who are you - said "Reniaa...next time you think long and hard, maybe you should ask yourself...Why am I in so much need of attention? It may explain why you exchanged your husband for another man and why you come on here.... Is this board where Reniaa compensates for her sluttish ways to grovel back to JAH in her conscience? Better to talk to the elders rather than seek attention here ......or just get back to the Kingdom hall and get yourself a vibrator ,just don't activate it at the hall or Jah might hear it.
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barry
Reniaa, I would like to make a few comments.
The child abuse issue is an issue all churches have had to deal with no exception. I beleive the problem with the WT cult is they have protected child abusers in their zeal to protect their religion.
In the issue of the cross the WT beleives it is so important it is one of the points of doctrine right in the baptisimal statement. I cant think of any church that is so petty.
With the issue of smoking other churches have sdvised their members of the dangers of this habit decades before the WT
The catholic church has held the primary doctrins of the christian faith for the last 2000 years but the doctrine of salvation arose at the reformation. Martin luther said the doctrine of salvation was the doctrine all other doctrine should be judged on.
You see Confession is not necessary, praying for the dead is not necessary, Pergatory is not necessary, Extreme unction is not necessary because of the protestant doctrine of salvation. Protestants beleive the christian is declaired right with God but the Catholic beleives he has to be made right.
In other words the Catholic has to reach perfection.
So the issue is not the cross or the triune God but the doctrine of salvation that the roman church rejected.
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OnTheWayOut
be the most widely heard. The WTS delivers a talk "which acknowledges the Society's responsibility
for some of the disappointment a number felt regarding 1975." What a wonderful apology. If the talk really did "apologize" (which this statement does not) then quote the talk. It is highly likely
that the talk barely scratched the surface on admitting culpability. Instead, they refer to a talk where
something was "acknowledged." So they are kind of saying, "For all you who demand an apology, it
was there, we did it, we won't do it again." A bit in-their-faces, I would say. The acknowledgement goes in the yearbook, not in the WT magazine or the Kingdom Ministry which
are actually read more often and not at a public meeting. Now that we established what a lousy apology this was, lets' think about the magnitude of what THEY
did and the depth of this apology. Their WT and Awake articles, along with their District Overseers and
others were praising the members who sold their homes, lived like there was no tomorrow, frantically
preached that the end would come in 1975. They told young ones in 1969 not to bother with college
because they would never get to work in their field of study. All that they did, but they simply acknowledge
responsibility for "some of the disappointment" felt by a "number." They even, in their apology, leave
room for the members to say (and they do/did) that the Society only didn't discourage those who
chose to take what was said too far. It's still the members' fault that they reacted wrongly. -
reniaa
hi barry
With the child abuse I don't think any faith is guiltless or government organisation for that matter, and if someone does an unbiased search you'll find Jw's don't particularily stand out, like I've said I've known a few non-witness cases and in one the case wasn't deemed strong enough to take to court and the other it was dealt with without involving the police basically the guy was thrown out but no more and in another it was revealed too late and the perpetrater already dying of old age, in one the police were called in and he went to prison, in the witness case I only know that the police were called and the man was convicted got 2 years in prison and also got disfellowshipped. Sometimes we have to judge from personal experience, I was never molested or left alone with elders or brothers who were not family members and this was through the 70's and 80's and I won't have other people tell me my experiences are not as valid as their's. There is a danger on these forums of having things rewritten for you by other people who try and replace your memories with a kind of group memory, it's easy to tell which people on here were once witnesses and which are just ones repeating what is the group line and various things come up again and again. This happens on all subjects
I watched an old black and white movie last night it's a classic with john mills called "The gentle gunman" lol not a western but a inside look at IRA and Irish people during the war, and it made a point that has just come back to me. there's a woman that has just had her husband die as an IRA fighter and her son is about to die for the cause too and she says to the leader 'you killed him because before you came he was happy and free but you told him he wasn't happy and he wasn't free and in doing that you took away his freedom and his happiness because he'd have lived his life without thinking these things"
You can use the same points against Jw's but this is were you can decide for yourself...if what this site says is what you actually have experienced then fine. If when I went from door to door and people thought I was talking rubbish then they have decided using their own judgement. when I go back to Jw's I go back having experienced 11 years of the opposite and much was fun but much was exactly as I had be warned of but ignored. JW's give me information but I still put it agianst my own memories not someone else's.
Many on here are sincere they genuinely think they are saving us but that doesn't mean you can't judge for yourself, and when your reading a wt on here thats been edited to certain bits and taken out of it's time context I recommend checking the date and remember that even 20 years ago the world was a different place. because we are radically changing as a world nearly as much as the beginning of the industrial age, it's the "internet age" family dynamics are radically changing too.
You know I never was really aware of the wts when I was a witness it was all 'we are Jehovah's witnesses' the wts was just a magazine and I prefered the awake (especially the crossword puzzles I miss them) How many faiths could stand the sort of scrutiny this site gives the WTs? None! in making ourselves delve so deeply into it's past and the lifes of gb members we fall into the trap Jesus mentioned luke 4:22-24
22 All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. "Isn't this Joseph's son?" they asked.
23 Jesus said to them, "Surely you will quote this proverb to me: 'Physician, heal yourself! Do here in your hometown what we have heard that you did in Capernaum.' "
24 "I tell you the truth," he continued, "no prophet is accepted in his hometown.
No faith run by and full of imperfect people can stand that sort of scrutiny, That why I go with doctrine and not imperfection issues.
barry said - With the issue of smoking other churches have sdvised their members of the dangers of this habit decades before the WT
Yes advised but how many listened? In England our government has spent millions on advertising to advise us of non-smoking over many many years but it didn't yield much result but since they actually brought in the law putting a total smoking ban in Public buildings there has been at least a 17% drop in smokers.....
reniaa