What do you think of this-obese win right to 2 airline seats for price of 1

by sir82 109 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  mustang

  Airliners and Transports ("heavies)) usually have generous margins. They can readily make concessions within their larger "envelopes of flight parameters". Smaller planes probably don't.

  All pilots are taught to do preflight planning. This is required by law.

  All planes are designed to strict specifications. These specs are published, in Flight Manuals. This is required by law.

  Preflight planning requires use of those Flight Manuals, which include applicable tables, worksheets for calculations and may specify use of the E6-B or other flight computing accessory.

  As a PIC (Pilot In Command), I would be the "lawful master of such a vessel". Flight safety is a primary responsibility. On such a smaller craft, I would consider safety, physics (including theory of flight) and applicable regulations. I would have no compunction in grounding a 400 pound passenger, his 400 pound luggage or both.

  If I were to accept a 300 pound passenger, I would retire to the pilots briefing room and replot my course and CG calculations; I would punch in new numbers for the takeoff roll and check those charts. If I had done all these the night before, I would do them again, upon seeing the passenger. I would not take on full fuel and would plan in shorter legs with more frequent fuel stops.

  Nor would I apologize, for doing my clear and lawful duty.

  Mustang
• 

  hillbilly

  Since when is a christian supposed to be concerned with physics? But, okay, let's look at it: an airplane has, say, a 35,000 lb. passenger weight capacity (hypo, folks - I have no idea what the weight limit is). As a result, they can fly either 3,500 100lb skinny people... or 100 350 lb people. Or a mix. They can make more money flying the 100 lb folks, of course, and so, they place seats accordingly.

  As a Christian myself I am very concered about physics. A God of Order has put some universal truths in place..that can be defined with math... that if ignored, will kill me

  Business... the airline doesnt know what that mix of skinny and big people will be until they show up in the lobby to load the plane. They assume that just about everyone will fit the seat... and they would like to push off the gate with every seat full (it's not a non-profit enterprise ya know). if we have an extra seat thats good for the customer (and bad for the airline)

  So.. how could I resonably expect the correctly configured aircraft to show up at anyone of the dozens of possible terminals? Do I ask you how much you weigh before I sell the ticket?

  What happens if too many big folks show up for the bonus seating? At some point just about any social reason we could argue comes off as not compassionate.

  And as Mustang pointed out... the Pilot in Command of that Aircraft has the last call. He could put the folks off the flight if necessary.

  Again the issue in the lead post was not how fat somebody is.. but are they entiltled to whatever space they need for one fare? To say that they are ... well, do I give everyone at my resturant 2 burgers for one price..just because they can eat them? No... you pay for what you eat... and dont go into make the burgers the 'right size" either. It just doesnt make sense...if you want or need 2 ... we expect to buy 2 burgers.

  Hill
• 

  AGuest

  I would have no compunction in grounding a 400 pound passenger, his 400 pound luggage or both.

  What about 2 200-lb passengers? 4 100-lb passengers? Other than the loss of fare (but this isn't about money, but about weight, right?), tell me, please, what is the difference?

  Still thinkin' "silly rabbits"...

  Peace.

  SA
• 

  mustang

  First, the "standard passenger" is set at a 180 pounds allowance. This is based on STATISTICAL DISTRIBUTION of population demographics. (Old numbers: may need reveiw.) And on that bell curve, I doubt that any given flight will have more than 1 400 pounder, maybe 2 300 pounders. IF SOMEBODY NOTICES an abnormal situation, "pilot's discretion" can be invoked and remedies instituted.

  But would they really lose that much if they made 2 or 3 seats just a little wider? Not much. Problem is... SKINNY PEOPLE WOULD GO FOR THOSE SEATS and clamor that they have a right to the "extra" space as much as the next person. Whether they actually needed the space or not. Right? And so, the argument would go, well, who's to say how much space skinny people need?

  Actually, not a bad idea, but not implemented at all, to my knowledge.

  Let's see: Airframe configurations are subject to the TSO (Technical Standards Order) process. Modification requires the STC (Supplementary Type Certification) process to amend the TSO.

  Since you are asking for a new type of seat, that means design, possibly some R&D and certainly some testing and qualification sequences. Then you can proceed to the STC process, w/ your brand new Part Number.

  The ticketing process can direct the appropriate passengers to these seats. The Flight Attendants have authority to make such rearrangements, if the ticketing process didn't catch it. If there is any doubt, the Flight Officers can exercise their legal authority to move passengers around. Behind them are Air Marshals and other authorities.

  As with the wheelchair passengers, these arrangements can be made ahead of time. I have done just this for others. Assigning the seats is the least of the problems.

  I've seen a similar STC done for 6 figures. Your requirement of a new seat design pushes that to megabucks, literally. I'll leave it to you to lobby for this enhancement. I cheer you on: the more such projects, the more work for some of us. I'm bidding on some aerospace work.

  Mustang
• 

  Tired of the Hypocrisy

  I am a fat old cowboy. I still fit in the one seat, but when I flew last November they told me that next time I might wanna get another seat. If the plane was not full I would get a refund on the extra seat. I am not close to 500 lbs, and I do fit in the coach seat. I guess it would be fine with me to pay, if I took up more than one seat.
• 

  AGuest

  As a Christian myself I am very concered about physics.

  That's because you are concerned, then, with the body, and don't truly understand what a "christian" is or what it means to be one.

  A God of Order has put some universal truths in place..that can be defined with math... that if ignored, will kill me.

  The "truths" that you refer to have to do with physical world and so it is the physical man that you are... which is NOT "christian"... that is concerned. The so-called "christian" that you claim to be,however, which is a SPIRITUA beingL... is not affected by such "truths"... at all. This is because the laws of the physical universe affect only the physical man... which is flesh (with its blood). The Leader of those who are truly "christian" (i.e., by means of an anointing with holy spirit and not just because such one calls oneself so... or belongs to some church or religions); however, said the flesh "is of NO USE... at all." That is why we do not fear him (or that) which can kill the body.

  Business... the airline doesnt know what that mix of skinny and big people will be until they show up in the lobby to load the plane. They assume that just about everyone will fit the seat... and they would like to push off the gate with every seat full (it's not a non-profit enterprise ya know). if we have an extra seat thats good for the customer (and bad for the airline)

  Indeed. This is because it's about money for them [airlines]. What's it about for us [christians]?

  Again the issue in the lead post was not how fat somebody is.. but are they entiltled to whatever space they need for one fare? To say that they are ... well, do I give everyone at my resturant 2 burgers for one price..just because they can eat them? No... you pay for what you eat... and dont go into make the burgers the 'right size" either. It just doesnt make sense...if you want or need 2 ... we expect to buy 2 burgers.

  Hmmm... your position is flawed here: some joints sell two burgers for the same price as some joints sell one. IF your price is one burger for $2.00, well, okay. If MY price is TWO burgers for $2.00... well, then, I'm offering my customers a better deal. Especially if my customer is hungrier than yours and especially if the burgers are the same size. Truth is, you could probably AFFORD to sell 2 for one... but can't bring yourself to lose the extra two bucks.

  Same thing here: if YOUR airline sells one person one seat for $400... and MY airline wishes to sell that same customer TWO seats for $400... I'm giving my customer a better deal. That the guy sitting next to him at the counter can't stomach that he had two burgers for lunch... rather than one... is that guy's problem. Not mine or my customers.

  Again, peace to you!

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  mustang

  Again, the "standard passenger" is 180 pounds. I can't take my helicopters lesson if I weight 225, say. The alarm bells go off in the neighborhood of 250 for other planes and services, I would say. At 300 pounds, I'm definitely back to the drawing board on flight planning.

  And as this whole the discussion started, the NUMBER OF SEATS IS LIMITED. We don't have to worry about the mix, because the 180 pounds is at such a point on the STATISTICAL DISTRIBUTION that fewer people will show up above say 250 pounds.

  The 220 pounds on the helicopter is based on 2 passengers ONLY and the horsepower of the engine (and lack of the large horsepower margins that airliners have), lift of the blades, air density (rho) and a few other of the flight equation parameters. With all due respect, Christianity has little connection with the flight equations.

  Again, its a "numbers game", with the larger passengers raising the alarms. THIS IS DESIGNED INTO THE SYSTEM, LITERALLY. With all due respect, your lack of understanding is the "silly rabbit on the field".

  If there is someone in your life who has such a situation, I understand your empathy. By the same token, you need to understand how the rest of the world works.

  Mustang
• 

  sweetstuff

  SS, causes of obesity that are not related to diet and exercise are definitely in the minority

  I am aware of that Beks, still it is a question that's valid because although it might be the minority, such conditions do exist.
• 

  AGuest

  Since you are asking for a new type of seat, that means design, possibly some R&D and certainly some testing and qualification sequences. Then you can proceed to the STC process, w/ your brand new Part Number.

  Oh, please. That's like saying that M&M Mars would have to redesign, conduct some R&D, and "certainly some testing and qualification sequences," just to put a Milky way back to the size it used to be before they cut it almost in half... to make more money. I'm almost 50 years old and I can tell you... the seats on many airlines are considerably smaller than they were, say, 30 years ago. And it isn't because someone out there proved that smaller seats equal smaller people equal greater safety. It's because someone out there realized that smaller seats means more seats means more money.

  Silly rabbit... don't blame the heavy guy next to you; blame the airline... and the CEO who makes mega-millions in stocks and options... while his airline declares bankruptcy.

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  AGuest

  Again, its a "numbers game", with the larger passengers raising the alarms.

  It's a numbers game, yes. With stock options raising the alarms.

  Peace!

  A slave of Christ,

  SA