Hello, Leolaia !
Jehovah's Witnesses and the Cross
Did you see my PM of last week ?
Jacques
Jesus not crucified on torture stake. Impossible!
by sacolton 250 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Leolaia
Motema....Thanks for the heads-up. I hope there will soon be a way to indicate when there is new mail. Will reply.
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Colton
Leolaia, does the Watchtower even have any official scholars to translate the Bible?
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Leolaia
Here are some examples of Roman trophies. Notice the outstretched position of the arms (actually, the horizontal beam that supports the armor).
Now, does this more resemble a cross with a patibulum, or does it more resemble a simple cross without a patibulum? Funny how stauros was compared to these and the outstretching of the hands was specifically emphasized.
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AllTimeJeff
Leolaia, does the Watchtower even have any official scholars to translate the Bible?
I stumbled across this and wanted to respond, hope you don't mind Leolaia....
The answer is a definitive NO. The closest was Fred Franz, who through his early academic career studied biblical Hebrew and Greek. However, while his passing association with the biblical languages put him a step above anyone else associated with the bible students or JW's, he did not receive sufficient education to be considered a scholar.
Freddie Franz used his limited knowledge as a basis for commentary, not translation. He had a very definite viewpoint the the presidents of the WTBTS were prophesied in the bible over and over again. This has formed the basis of "prophetic" dogma and the Gilead school for over 60 years....
Franz worked with Al Scroeder, who also had some kind of limited/passing familiarity with the biblical languages, but again, he was more of a commentator then scholar or translator.
Lawerence Bowen, who until the last couple of years, was one of the 3 main Gilead school instructors, "taught himself" Hebrew and Greek. It has been a passion with him ever since he became Al Schroeders secretary in the late 80's/early 90's. Franz also threw some pointers his way. He is considered of the current crop to be the unofficial/offical NWT scholar/translator.
Thats just background. Clearly, while they have access to all kinds of commentaries and translations, they choose only to manipulate whatever they do attempt to translate to their own dogmatic ends.
Leolaia knows WAY more then these guys....
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reniaa
history is written by the winners with christianity this is definitely the case since death to heretics was the norm. What has to be remembered is all these theologians you quote leolaia had to support trinitarian Christianity and the writings kept would all be in support of the current doctrines, what would happen to anything written that supported anything different?
Sir Isaac Newton supported One God but it was onlt discovered after his death in hidden writtings found.
This is were we need a history on constantine and his influence on christianity he was the deciding factor on the trinity directly he also had a vision of a cross interestingly it wasn't the one supported today.
here's some history of constantine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I
In 321 Constantine instructed that Christians and non-Christians should be united in observing the venerable day of the sun, referencing the esoteric eastern sun-worship which Aurelian had helped introduce, and his coinage still carried the symbols of the sun-cult until 324. Even when he dedicated the new capital of Constantinople, which became the seat of Byzantine Christianity for a millenium, he did so wearing the Apollonian sun-rayed Diadem.
nicene creed
The emperor carried out his earlier statement: everybody who refuses to endorse the Creed will be exiled. Arius, Theonas, and Secundus refused to adhere to the creed, and were thus exiled, in addition to being excommunicated. The works of Arius were ordered to be confiscated and consigned to the flames. [ 22 ] Nevertheless, the controversy, already festering, continued in various parts of the empire.
arius papers were destroyed as you see.
this is the problem with reading documents from christian sources of the early centuries they were heavily censored. lol a bit like this forum you only get one side of the debate.
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Colton
Reniaa, you do know that the name JEHOVAH originally came from Christendom?
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Leolaia
(Perhaps, although I would suggest that Narkissos knows way more than me in that respect. )
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Awakened at Gilead
Having plowed through 7 pages of this what should be a non-debate, LOL (as no-one knows for sure the instrument, Leolaia and others admits this, although the evidence leans towards a cross, but Renaia insists that it MUST be a stake....)
I want to address one of Renaia's original points, that of comparing the snake on a stake to Jesus on a stake.
My question is this: How would you crucify a snake? It has no arms, right?????? So the analogy fails because Jesus had arms, and the method of execution could have been different. Snakes don't have any arms (unless you look at the old WT literature).
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mrsjones5
Why is Reniaa comparing Jesus to a snake?
