Would a definite article prove that Jesus is God? (page 8)

Will Power

I'm going to jump right in with a couple of questions. Please forgive me if this has already been asked here.

Not ever being a JW, I'm at a disadvantage at understanding deep spiritual things.

QUESTION:

Can someone please explain the Christhead?

Christ: the prehuman existance, the earthly man, the resurrected spirit man, the archangel Michael, the lesser god man.The bible says false gods will perish and that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.

The son, if he in the very nature of god, the divine, has all these different personnas, for lack of a better term, how is it impossible for his father, the all mighty to not have similar or even superior qualities/capabilities ??

Thanks in advance

wp

Deputy Dog

S

Also, jesus died, ceased to exist for 3 days, life force nonexistent. How can a being w intrinsic divine state/nature die? This doesn't speak very well for the wt god. It suggests that it is possible that he also could die.

Not only that. But, if nothing came down, nothing went up. So any talk of a resurrection is a lie and is simply a recreation.

frankiespeakin

I think a good follow up question should be to the question:

Would a definite article prove that Jesus is God?

Would be:Does excepting Jesus as God or not excepting Jesus as God have any effect on getting salvation or God's approval. I would tend to think God not that petty. Why should he really care or why should it be important for salvation. My imagination of god is not that petty, my god says:"who cares".

I think it is important that we also come to grips with the fact that what an ancient writing says about a diety can not be considered as proof of what an ancient deity is. Inotherwrds you can't offer paper or papyri as any form of legitimate proof of Jesus God ship and that it is merely an academic exorcise as to original meaning and nothing more.

Narkissos

they just believe when he was a human he was not a god/man or angel/man.

I'm not quite sure about that. Whereas this would seem to be required by the "corresponding ransom" (another school case of overtranslation btw) argument (balancing scales and stuff, with the goofy idea that if you pay too much for a ransom it won't work -- try that any day with your local kidnappers), otoh they do ascribe Jesus' power and knowledge while on earth to what he was, not just "external" revelation from Jehovah as in the case of (other) prophets etc. It seems to me that the WT time and again affirmed that the earthly Jesus, at least from baptism onward, remembered his pre-human life (e.g. in the argument, the Flood is true because Jesus mentioned it, and he should have known because he was there). So even in JW doctrine he was no mere man, but god-angel/man.

The JW version of "hypostatic union" is actually no less logically problematic than the orthodox one if it is more shallow. "Angelic life force" + "human body" instead of "Son of God" + "human nature". Fortunately they never think about it.

Satanus

DD

You are right that nothing went up, because jesus' life force ceased existence on the cr, i mean stake. However, they are saying that angelic/divine life force came down to mary. Further on what went up, we get into the 'resurrection' of jesus/archangel/whatever. If the supposed resurrection took place in earth's vicinity, then a new life force would of necesity need to be brought down in preparation for said resurrection. Adding it all up, i get 2 divine life forces brought down, and only one returing back to heaven. One life force lost:( I wonder if designs will come back w something to say about this.

S

Satanus

DD

As per the wt material that you quoted, that jesus' life force came from his previous life as an archangel, the question is, what happened to that life force when jesus died? Did it ground out like electricity? Or, did wtgod preserve it in a divine faraday cage or battery? If it was lost, then the life force of the resurrected jesus is no longer that of an archangel, but a brand new one, directly from god. Questions, questions. Not for you, so much as for a jw.

S

Deputy Dog

S

Or, did wtgod preserve it in a divine faraday cage or battery?

Don't you watch Star Trek? It's held in the personality partern buffer. crazy

Questions, questions. Not for you, so much as for a jw.

I know what you mean.

PSacramento

frankie,

I don't think that the Trinity doctrine is basis for salvation, I am NOT sure if believing Jesus was Michael is part of their basis for salvation, but I don't think it is.

daniel-p

This is the way I see it: For two thousand years people have been arguing if Jesus was God or not, based on what the Bible says. There is no conlusion to the argument. It was never settled. It still rages on, with both sides claiming victory. I think that if anyone had any measure of conclusive scriptural evidence, it would have seen the light of day by now.

PSacramento

Daniel,

A valid point, this has been going on for sometime now,peole have been burned at the stake for it, or worse.

Point is though, if you decided that one interpretation is valid for your salvation, it becomes THE key issue.

Of course IF it was that crucial, either view, then we have to wonder why someone just didn't came out and say it and not just once, but all the time, I mean Paul certainly had MANY chance to say, in plain Greek - Jesus is YHWH, he didn't, he said Jesus is all that YHWH is, he is of the same substance, God only begotten son, etc, etc, but never once did he say Jesus is YHWH, did he?

Would a definite article prove that Jesus is God?

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