Precious!! Would you like a lollie-pop?
The struggle against the immediae danger from false teachers
by mrsjones5 196 Replies latest jw friends
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cyberjesus
I have to say that I am happy to see JW talking to Apostates, even if it is to defend your faith. Because most JWs dont dare, so thats a good thing. As long as we can talk together there is one battle won already.
Now if I may make an observation is that Most XJWs used to think exactly like you JWs in the past.. However something changed. And now we think different. We XJWs know why you think that way that why we could understand where you are coming from. My suggestion is that you also try to research why we disagree with the way the WT handles itself and the spiritual wellbeing of JWs so you can understand us as well.
You dont have to agree with us nor us with you but we could understand each other. However I still commend you for having the courage of speaking with us :-)
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bennyk
I looked into the UN thing, no link to Jehovah's people.
That is true enough. The Watch Tower Society has nothing to do with "Jehovah's people."
This is the only group of people who have seperated themselves from this world.
Spoken like a true Amishman.
It is true we did not have full light in the past, but we have progressed into the light Jesus is showings us.
Don't blame Jesus for what is published in the Watchtower.
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mrsjones5
"You who are ready to believe any accustion by a man. "
No, we don't readily believe, at least I don't. I have made sure to research the manmade organisation of the watchtower and have found it to be sorely wanting, totally arrogant, and deceptively wrong to claim that it is the only representative of God on this earth.
I think what you're upset about is you can't make us stop. You can't kick us off this site. You can't shun us into silence.
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mrsjones5
Actually I was typing too fast. Are you up for Spelling Nazi? I don't think you're aptly qualified.
And if you do a little research you would find that it can be spelled or spelt both ways
"An organization (or organisation — see spelling differences) is a social arrangement which pursues collective goals, which controls its own performance, and which has a boundary separating it from its environment. The word itself is derived from the Greek word ?ργανον (organon [itself derived from the better-known word ?ργον ergon - work; deed - > ergonomics, etc]) meaning tool." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization
But research isn't your strong suit, is it?
Maybe you should ask Jesus the right way to spell it.
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mrsjones5
Sorry but you failed. You thought with that flippant comment about my spelling skills that you had me and topped if off with a quip related to uneducated jws and was sadly mistakened. How arrogant you are.
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garyneal
PJS:
Your willingness to stand up for your faith is admirable. We Christians must do the same thing but remember that we must follow 1 Peter 3:15-16 "...But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander."
Remember attacks against you personally are 'ad hominem' attacks and the attacker has lost the battle if he or she resorts to this. It cuts both ways as we are all imperfect but we must strive not to resort to these types of attacks ourselves. If the attacker is sincere and humble, he or she will eventually regret the ad hominem attack and apologize. If not, you've done your part and stood firm on your foundation so there is nothing else you need to prove.
May the Lord bless you in your chosen path, I recall your making a good observation on the issue of the Society's stance on blood. Maybe there are enough people like you on the inside who will be able to influence the organization from within.
Here are some issues that I feel that the Society will officially change on (though nothing is certain).
Celebrating Birthdays will become a concious matter. Why? Because their reasoning is faulty and if they try to use the blowing out of the birthday candle to ward off demons or allow some spirit to grant wishes, then they must see the hypocrisy of them allowing wedding rituals.
1914 will be quietly "swept under the rug." Why? Because it is not really supported in Scripture nor is it supported by documented evidence and the Society knows this. Any Jehovah's Witness who is truly honest about this will have to conclude this too. The Society will never officially declare new light on the teaching as it will cause too many witnesses to stumble. They will just simply let it fade in the minds of the Jehovah's Witnesses and talk about it less and less.
I doubt they will completely drop the blood issue but they may allow more and more blood fractions to be allowed. I feel the medical community will need to catch up with the Society and be able to provide an alternative. That will be the most likely thing to happen. Perhaps they will not be so dogmatic to their followers concerning the 'take blood and lose your everlasting life' stance. But they will strongly recommend against taking it.
Love In Christ
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AK - Jeff
I only read page 1 and this page. Did some idiot assert that Jehovah's Witnesses did not become a UN NGO? And these defenders of the Watchtower say we don't do our research? OMG.
There's never been a more ignorant comment made than that. The flippin' GB doesn't even deny it. They just lie about the reason.
Jeff
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cyberjesus
PJS, No I am not connected to the tire place. Although I know where Banning is, do you live around there?// The message is this, Just recently I used to be on your side. I hated, let me rephrase I HATED the apostates. But I also hated to have so many unresolved questions. Things that didnt make sense being that Jehovah, according to my past believes was directing the organization. So I studied, I researched. I didnt like what I found. I hated what I found, but kept digging. Hate was an undelying layer...
Now I love what I found because it helped me think differently. Do you ever wonder why if we also believed that the organization was directed by God using the Governing body a lot of us have left? Even pioners who preach the same message everyday, Elder who help the member adjust, CO who oversee that everyone is in the same page? Missionaries who are selected very carefully, writters of the same articles you have to read every week? Even a member of the same Governent body who according to your belief God uses to help you think the way you think?
We all have something in common, we all discover the same thing on our own. Do you wonder what it is? What could it be so big that we were willing to give up our hope in the paradise even our own family?
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AGuest
I never verbally assulted or put anyone down on this site. It has been quite the opposite.
Perhaps, and I've acknowledged that, along with the fact that you may have contributed to it. But I am not attacking you. I am not persecuting you. I am not being unkind or unloving toward you. I am asking serious, valid questions… none of which you have answered thus far. Rather, YOU slyly try to insinuate that I am a false teacher. You express disappointment and hurt by those who say the same of you and those you follow… and yet, here you are doing the very same thing… to someone who has NOT treated you unkindly or unlovingly.
If you want to consider that I feel attacked in that way, yes I and Angel Eyes, and any other witness has also. That is not uncommon is it? We face
this in the field also.
Yet, your leaders teach that folks LOVE you. That, indeed, the world loves you. They boast of it constantly, using stories and accounts of how this or that one received accolades from neighbors, employees, non-Witness relatives, etc. Yet, you are attacked. Either you all are loved, dear one… or attacked. You can't have it both ways - Christ didn't… and a slave is NOT greater than his master.
A place you choose not to be, and cannot defend the faith?
WHOA... WAIT! Where do you choose NOT to be and yet apparently are? Here, on this forum? How is it that you are here, indeed WHY are you here… if you don't CHOOSE to be? And please don't say that that God/Christ/Holy Spirit MADE you come. Such service is SUPPOSED to be "willingly." Psalm 110:3
Or perhaps you mean in field service? And who is MAKING you do that so that you have NO choice? Your "king," the WTBTS? Well, then, you are doing the will of your "king" as such was promised. You have chosen a DIFFERENT leader... and DIFFERENT "king"... than Christ… and so how can you now complain that "he" is receiving his "portion"? 1 Samuel 7:7, 9, 11-22a
Then, you speak of "defending" the faith. This is what I mean when communicating with you: you don't even know what you're speaking of... let alone defending. Defending the WTBTS... is NOT defending your FAITH. Because your FAITH… is SUPPOSED to be… IN CHRIST… not in the WTBTS. So any faith that you SHOULD defend… should be with reference to HIM… and NO other.
Be that as it may... you shouldn't need to defend your FAITH: such a thing is what it is... or isn't what it is isn't. You either have faith in Christ... or you don't. SAYING that you do… doesn't make it so. Heck, the demons BELIEVE. Rather, it is your HOPE that may need defending, your HOPE that others may challenge.
For example, MY hope... is to see my Lord, recline at his table, reside in the House of His Father and mine. Eat from the Tree of Life that he is... and live forever. That is my HOPE. I have been PROMISED the fulfillment of that hope, which promise has been SEALED… by holy spirit. However, some… including YOU… doubt that hope AND that sealing. And so THAT is what I have to defend.
What, though, is YOUR hope? "To live forever... in a paradise earth?" Okay. I can accept that. To be resurrected (if you die) and/or have loved ones who have died resurrected? I can accept that, as well. My question to YOU, however… is HOW IS EITHER of those to HAPPEN... in LIGHT of the FACT that the WTBTS tells YOU... YOU do not NEED to eat the flesh and drink the blood of Christ? How can that HAPPEN... in LIGHT of the words of CHRIST HIMSELF:
"I… am the LIVING bread that came down from heaven; if ANYONE eats of this bread… HE WILL LIVE… FOREVER. " John 6:51
and…
"UNLESS you eat the flesh of the Son of ManAND drink his blood… you have NO life in yourselves." John 6:53
and…
"He that FEEDS ON MY FLESH and DRINKS MY BLOOD… HAS EVERLASTING LIFE… and I WILL… RESURRECT HIM at the last day." John 6:54
I ask YOU… how is it that you even HOPE to live forever… or BE resurrected to EVERLASTING LIFE… while ignoring this very COMMAND??!! Perhaps you believe you have life within yourself? Your leaders teach that you do (which is how they justify such a hope outside of eating and drinking the flesh and blood of Christ). I say that you do not… and not because I say so, but because such life can only COME from Christ. John 5:26
You now have in you? What faith is that? 'I believe in JESUS!' Big deal!
Indeed, big deal as, again, the demons believe… and shudder. BUT… one "believing in Jesus" is a HUGE step closer to God… than "believing"… in the WTBTS.
You lost the light from the only people that Jesus is using today! Wake UP! Grow up!
Dear one… you are in error. And it is you that should wake up… and grow up. Let me show you, for HERE is where YOU are. It is taken from the 4th Chapter of Paul's letter to the Galatians:
"… as long as the heir IS A BABE… he does not differ AT ALL… from a slave, lord of all things THOUGH he is, but... he is UNDER… MEN IN CHARGE… and UNDER… STEWARDS… until the day his FATHER appointed… beforehand. Likewise we also… when WE… WERE babes… continued ENSLAVES… by the ELEMENTARY things belonging to the world."
You, dear one, are a babe… and thus, are still UNDER men in charge… stewards… and so CONTINUE ENSLAVED… by the elementary things. And who are such "men in charge," such "stewards"? They are "hired men," of course. But what of these "hired men"? I will share that with you, as well. Let's go to the 10th Chapter of John:
"The HIRED MAN… who IS NO SHEPHERD… and to whom the sheep DO NOT BELONG… beholds the WOLF (you know, men in "sheep's" clothing… which clothing is LOVE… and so these do not possess such clothes but only PRETEND to)… coming… and… ABANDONS the sheep… and FLEES - and the wolf SNATCHES them AND SCATTERS them - because… HE IS A HIRED MAN… and does not CARE for the sheep."
That "hired man," dear one, is your beloved GB. They are the ones CLAIMING to have been "appointed" over the sheep… hired by Christ to "oversee" his flock. The "wolves" are those elders, CO's, etc., who PRETEND to love the sheep… to have on proper "clothing"… but do not. The GB-hired-man… abandons God's sheep to the wolf-like elders, CO's, etc., who mislead them… lie to them… lie on them… persecute them… cast them out… snatch them… scatter them… etc.
YOU… are yet a babe… and so YOU… are still UNDER such "men in charge." And it is because of what you SEE… their treatment of the sheep… that YOU have come here. YOU are looking for something else… yet, you are not "christlike" enough to admit it. You ca lie to yourself, dear one, but you cannot lie to the Holy Spirit.
Stop using intimidation that you say our brotherhood is using. Your only wedge is the imperfections of men that are associated sinfully do.
Yet, if such men WERE actually guided by HOLY SPIRIT… such "imperfections" would not exist. Their prophesies WOULD come true. Their "light" WOULD remain steadfast… instead of needing to "tack" every decade or so.
Look what King David did? Did that change the true worship of the only true God?
David… REPENTED. Neither you… nor your leaders… believe you have anything to repent OF.
And dates? Disappointments that it did not come when we thought. That was speculation.
"When we thought" is downplaying, dear one. These actually STATED dated... and if a member disagreed it was THAT one who was in error... and "rebellious"... and "speaking aainst the FDS," etc. It was THEY who speculated. Since WHEN does the Holy Spirit SPECULATE? At the same time, you and your leaders are "scrupulously OBSERVING dates and times and seasons." Hypocrites, w hy IS that? So as to stay awake? Our Lord SAID... HE doesn't know... that the householder does NOT know. So, w hat does the date matter? Shouldn't we be awake… regardless of a date?
However by doing so, we keep our spiritual eyes open to the nearness of the time in which we live.
Aahhh, yes: so that we can SPECULATE as to the times. I ask you to consider: should we be serving God with a timeframe in mind? What if there was no "end"? What then? We should be serving God… BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM and HIS SON… and for NO other reason. Your leaders keep pushing dates… and times, however... because their membership keeps GROWING TIRED. To keep their members "focused," they hold out the imminence of "Armageddon"… as a "carrot"… of fear!
Putting the Kingdom first is what we should have been doing.
So, why, then, are YOU putting the WTBTS first? Did not our Lord say, "the kingdom… is INSIDE you?" Hear… and get the SENSE of it!
Did you lose materially? $ on this earth, instead of storing up treasures in heaven where it cannot be lost like so many people
have lost everything, and commit suicide because they lost material wealth? Even billionair's!
Dear, dear pjschipper… if your leaders were to condescend to sell just ONE of their many real estate holdings in Brooklyn, NONE of its members would ever be in need. And, yet, many… many… are. How much real estate did Christ own? Indeed, where was his house? True, he lived with his mother in Capernaum for a time… but where after that? Or do you not recall that he said, "The Son of man has NOWHERE to lay his head."? Tell me how the NET WORTH of the WTBTS… corresponds to a ministry of… okay, let's say Paul… let alone Christ.
Where is this promised presence of his?
Dear one, it is YOU and your leaders who ask this question. I have told you of his invisible presence, just as I told them. Yet, because YOU… and THEY… can't SEE him… you ridicule. How is it you deride those who ask the same of YOU… when it is YOU who lack faith… you must walk by SIGHT… in a "visible representation"?
It will come upon those who have gone asleep spiritually.
Which, unfortunately, includes you, dear one. You just don't know it, yet.
Then it will be to late.
Which is why I have been directed to share with you what I do. So that it is not too late… for YOU.
Choose now whom you will serve…
I... have chosen. As, apparently, have you. I serve the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, by means of serving His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH… and those who belong to him… along with ALL those of the world. To the glory of God. YOU… serve the WTBTS… and so, for now, share in her sins… which means you may also reap her plagues. May JAH have mercy on them... and you… and your entire household.
My service to you with regard to the Truth… is concluded, dear pjschipper. From the Spirit I now hear that I am free of your blood. While you may have heard the call… and perhap een began to respond… you did not follow through. Unfortunately, you looked back toward the "GreatCity"… rather than continuing your flight to the mountain. And as a result, you will be sent back to that City… and her kings WILL dominate you… to your own detriment. Because… you love it. May you not ultimately be "caught" in her.
Oh, and all kinds of folks believe themselves to be "separate" from the world, including but not necessarily limited to the Amish, various sects of the LDS, and all kinds of Buddhist monk colonies. Heck, you can even count folks like Jim Jones. It is not hte world we are to separate from - the world is something we are not to be a "part" of. It is the UNCLEAN thing that we are to separate ourselves from. You... are yet touching it.
I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ,
SA