OMG,
Another thesis. I cannot read another 12 page dissertation.
Ana
IS THE WATCHTOWER A FALSE PROPHET?
by You Know 207 Replies latest watchtower bible
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You Know
Another thesis. I cannot read another 12 page dissertation.
LOL You people are ridiculous. Apostates accuse me of not answering their questions, but when I go to some length in addressing and refuting their challenges, then the complaint is that it's too lengthy to read. You are apparently very determined to deceive yourself. / You Know
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Dan B
You know stated: "People believe what they want for their own selfish reasons and therefore are quick to gulp down slander and falsity in order to allow themselves to indulge in their favorite fantasies without the pangs of conscience."
Sounds like a pretty good description of the JW's to me.
Dan
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607BCisAbigLIE
YouKnow wrote:
If his words didn’t come true than that meant that Jehovah didn’t speak them. That criteria can no longer hold true in the Christian era for the simple fact that God speaks to no one. And so any claimant of divine inspiration is automatically disqualified. The words of God as recorded in the Bible are the sole basis for our message and they cannot and will not fail
YouKnow, think carefully about this one: "If his words didn’t come true than that meant that Jehovah didn’t speak them". Yes, it is surely the case, how can we refute that one? But the next sentence tells about your knowledge of God's Word, which oubviously you din't really studied. Here again you have it all wrong. How can someone say that if someone is lying deliberately about God's Word he is still
considered a true prophet? Non-sense! I agree that in our days we can hardly tell if God is speaking to people or not. It is by a twist on word that the WT do not claim to get the message directly from God Himself, but they do claim to speak in God's name. That's pretty much the same thing just reformulated otherwise. LIARS are still not counted for true prophets of God in the New Testament. Otherwise, we would as well think that God is a liar too, which is impossible. It has been proven that the WT has told lies, and is still telling lies today (i.e. the ONG and UN affair). How can they be counted as true prophets of God, when God hates liars? Never!In the Bible Peter denied that he even knew Jesus. That was of course a grievous sin that he deeply regretted. But, did that make him a false prophet?
Of course not, but he never stated that he was speaking in the word of God when he denied to have ever known Jesus. And more, he faithfully repented himself in such doing. He have been apologized. But he never spoke by the word of God when he said that he din't know Jesus. He was only protecting his own life, and the life of the other apostles. -
jayhawk1
Quote from You Know,
I have not sought to absolve JW leaders from responsibility. On the contrary, I have, on this thread, as well as on other occasions, pointed out, albeit not in great detail, how Jehovah will hold his servants accountable for their errors. The difference between our positions is that you point to Watchtower errors and jump to the conclusion that they can't possibly be God's chosen ones, while I am aware of our errors I am also aware of Jehovah's means to deal with such things.
Why would Jehovah use men that make a mockery of his name?
According to the Christian Greek definition of a false prophet it is limited to that. Although I also pointed out how Peter and Jude foretell that false prophets are predatory men who arise from within the true Christian organization. No one can successfully deny that the scriptural profile fits apostate Jehovah’s Witnesses perfectly.
Peter and Jude do fortell false prophets arise from the Christian orginization. Now I have three questions.
1) Who of us are making predictions, other that YOU?
2) Who says that the Jehovah's Witnesses are the true Christian orginization other than themselves?
3) Again why would Jehovah use an orginization that makes a mokery of his name?There are different meanings for the word prophet, and the Watchtower appropriately is a prophet of sorts in that they are authorized to declare the message of God’s kingdom as found in the Bible. That’s entirely different from the sort of Old Testament prophet who spoke words directly for God. That’s the type of prophet that Deuteronomy is talking about. And since the nature of false prophets is to deceive others, their methods of deception are not always so obvious. That’s why the Christian writers help us to further identify how Satan’s operatives work now. And as I pointed out the criteria for recognizing the true and the false is different for Christians than it was for the Jews under the Law. That’s because no one is directly inspired by God to utter his words now as they were in Bible times.
More questions for You Know.
1) On what date was Jehovah's Witnesses ordained by God to be his prophet? After all they have in their own literature admitted they are not a prophet.
2) Regarding true and false prophets, what prediction has the society made that came true, other than WWII will end some day? Everything on Earth comes to an end at some point, so that is not a prophecy.Watch carefully, young children, and you will get an education. Here’s where the apostate’s legerdemain comes in, but if you observe closely it is possible to see how a skilled and clever deceiver adroitly uses the sleight of hand techniques in his operation. Did you see it. You have to be quick-eyed. Let’s slow it down here a little and play it again. Notice how the apostate cunningly redefines what a prophet is by inventing words to place in someone else’s mouth. Remember, the apostate uses counterfeit words, so you have to be on guard. Read again his statement “these words are from God” but whose words prove to be merely their own understanding, is a false prophet. Such a false prophet is quite different from someone who says the equivalent of "here is my interpretation of the Bible and so I think that these words represent God's thoughts". Such a false prophet is quite different from someone who says the equivalent of "here is my interpretation of the Bible and so I think that these words represent God's thoughts". Did you catch the subtle flick of the wrist? If not read the statement again until it becomes clear. A.F. is basically saying that it’s okay to offer an inadequate interpretation of the Bible as long as one doesn’t say it authoritatively. This is of course a nonsensical statement. And, most importantly doesn’t even fit the Old Testament criteria for identifying a false prophet. Keep that in mind as we go to his next statement.
Okay, one quick question.
The Old Testament is mainly for the Hebrews, as opposed to the New Testament which is mainly for the Christians. That aside, I see nothing wrong with Jehovah's Witnesses making opinions on the Bible. However, when they say this is what Jehovah the Almighty God means, they are putting words in God's mouth. Now that would be fine by me, if what they say is accurate. Now for my question, if what they have said in the past is inaccurate, and it is, why would God use them now? God hates liars, and has said in the Bible that the light and the dark don't mix.Here again A.F. runs far afield in his redefining what a false prophet is. Remember now, the Law of Dueteronomy gave the Jews a simple means for ferreting out a false prophet. If his words didn’t come true than that meant that Jehovah didn’t speak them. That criteria can no longer hold true in the Christian era for the simple fact that God speaks to no one. And so any claimant of divine inspiration is automatically disqualified. The words of God as recorded in the Bible are the sole basis for our message and they cannot and will not fail. However, A.F. would have you confuse divine inspiration with divine authority. They are two separate things. It is different in the Christian organization for the reason that Christ assigned his followers to be his spokesmen and ambassadors to the world. That means Jesus gave AUTHORITY to his followers to speak and teach in his name and in the name of his Father. That’s the position that Jehovah’s Witnesses claim. No one claims to be inspired to speak words from God such as the Hebrew prophets of old. That’s totally unnecessary. The Bible is our only source of inspiration. As Revelation says: “The bearing witness to Jesus is what inspire prophesying.” That so-called prophesying doesn’t mean we are inspired to speak fresh words from God’s mouth, but that we preach about the many prophecies that pertain to all aspects of Jehovah’s purpose in Christ. So, while the Watchtower has authority over God’s household, that doesn’t mean that they are inspired to unerringly interpret the Bible. If that were true why does the very prophecy that authorizes a faithful slave also call for his punishment for his failures?
You must be reading special literature from the Society, because they have in the past claimed that their literature is God inspired. For other things you have said about false prophets, I will leave out, because you become redundant.
However, there is an obvious paradox here that must be solved. If Jesus wanted his followers to recognize the sign of his presence and to preach the message that God’s kingdom was near then why would he say not to follow those who were saying that the ‘due time has approached’ since the very existence of such false messiahs would indicate that the time had in fact approached? The answer is in the timing. According to Matthew’s account Jesus gave a more detailed warning about false prophets and false christ’s and when they would appear. True, Matthew’s account records that Jesus also warned that false prophets would appear before and during the entire interval of his presence, but, the most dangerous period for Jesus’ followers would be during the period of the tribulation. Luke’s account doesn’t really specify the time when such ones would arise but Matthew’s account definitely situates the arrival of the false christs during the tribulation period, which of course is yet future. That’s when many would arise claiming to be the Christ and saying that the time had arrived, for whatever they were leading people to believe was going to happen.
Jesus specifically warned that the deception would be so masterful that if it were possible that even his own chosen ones would be taken in by the deception. Jesus merely instructed his followers to categorically reject all such claimants for the simple reason that the real Jesus was not coming back physically. The point is, that those whom Jesus foretold would appear saying: “I am he,’ and, ‘the due time has approached.” would arise at a point during the tribulation. Therefore, we can say with certainty that Jesus was not talking about the true sons of the kingdom whom he dispatched to declare that God’s kingdom was near as evidenced by the signs.
Regarding this long quote, I have this question. False prophets are just one of the signs, and it is true we have one already Jehovah's Witnesses. Also, what about the rest of the signs of the end? It seems nothing has changed so far. Economies go up and down, like they always have. People go hungry due to greed, like always. False prophets come and go, like the Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.
Indeed, the doctrinal basis for the Watchtower’s authority is found later on in that prophecy where Jesus foretold the appointment of a faithful slave to oversee his household. So, it is a lie that Jesus has no one on earth during his parousia that he has authorized to speak for him. The evil slave better fits the description of a false prophet due to the fact that he too has a position of authority and uses his insider position to mislead others. Judging by the power that charlatans like Ray Franz, and others, have over apostate JWs, it is evident that that’s the case.
You Know, your post does not go from one point to another, it keeps going round and around. We are back to the who is a false prophet thing again. So I have another similar question.
1) Who has made prophecy, Jehovah's Witnesses or their apostates? If you say apostates please cite more than one example of an apostate prophecy that many people believe to be true. In other words, don't give me speculation.That’s because they blaspheme God by denouncing those whom God appointed over his household. Remember, Satan’s criteria for God’s servants and Jehovah’s are two different things entirely. Satan is the Accuser who accuses us night and day before God. Jehovah is not nearly so harsh in his judgments. And those two points of view are reflected in the contrast between faithful witnesses and apostate dubs. The bottom line is, that just because the faithful slave may err or misinterpret some prophecies, of have premature expectations, does not mean that he does not have an appointment over God’s household. That is pure apostate bull manure.
I see you are speaking in behalf of Jehovah yourself. I think God is a big enough boy to speak for himself. Where is the Satan Bible if he is accusing Jehovah day and night. Sounds like you have made Jehovah out to be a big baby. Regarding Jehovah not being harsh in judgements, that is why you say he wants to distroy 99.9% of the people on Earth, and that is not harsh. I could say more, but why bother.
Jesus hasn’t condemned us. Apostates are the accusers and those who falsely judge and condemn their former brothers by twisting God’s word to suit their own ends. You are merely passing off your own jaundiced opinions as if they were the Judgments of God. By all accounts you, and all apostates, are unspiritual and animalistic men who seek to separate Jehovah’s Witnesses from their leadership, wreck their faith, and exploit them for your own wicked purpose. According to the apostles’ description that makes you and your ilk the real false prophets and deceivers of the mind.
First, where is the evidence that Jesus said one way or the other about Jehovah's Witnesses being his orginization?
Secondly I don't run around looking to pick a fight with Jehovah's Witnesses, they come to my door looking to start one with me. The only reason I post to you, is because you come here. Agian, how can we be false prophets, because don't you have to prophesy in order to be a prophet?Another quote from You Know
quote:
Don't generalize, because I did read it all. Perhaps if your posts did not circle and you addressed one topic at a time, your posts would not be so long and people would not complain about how long your posts are. Have a good day You Know.
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Another thesis. I cannot read another 12 page dissertation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------LOL You people are ridiculous. Apostates accuse me of not answering their questions, but when I go to some length in addressing and refuting their challenges, then the complaint is that it's too lengthy to read. You are apparently very determined to deceive yourself. / You Know
"Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford
Jeremy's Hate Mail Hall Of Fame.
http://hometown.aol.com/onjehovahside/ and [email protected] -
joelbear
What happens when the Faithful and Discreet Slave are all dead?
Joel
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Erich
You Know:
[QUOTE] Indeed, the doctrinal basis for the Watchtower’s authority is found later on in that prophecy where Jesus foretold the appointment of a faithful slave to oversee his household. [QUOTE]
Dear brother YK:
Sorry, I never read in the bible there's a doctrinal basis found for the Watchtower's authority. Rather, there is a basis for the authority of Jesus and the anointed 144 000 found. Thats clear.
Watchtower is a incorporated company, the name is registrated in the US patent & Trademark Office. If authority, then you obviously mean that one of the Faithful & Discreet Slave. These are persons counting to the anointed ones. Watchtower contain of two different groups now: Anointed ones who are mostly older than 80 (corporated under the WTS of PA) and the Max Larsson's group containing non-anointed ones (corporated under WTS of N.Y.).
WTS always declared there is a difference between "Watchtower" and the F&DS. New light now? Please explain.
Futher:
[QUOTE] Any brother who deliberately seeks to undermine the trust of Jehovah’s Witnesses in their leadership is wicked and has no place in God’s household of faithful ministers.[QUOTE]
Question: What do you understand as "leadership"? YHVH/JHWH and Jesus Christ together with the 144 000 anointed ones?If I made false alleges, please get me right.
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Erich
You Know:
Indeed, the doctrinal basis for the Watchtower’s authority is found later on in that prophecy where Jesus foretold the appointment of a faithful slave to oversee his household.
Dear brother YK:
Sorry, I never read in the bible there's a doctrinal basis found for the Watchtower's authority. Rather, there is a basis for the authority of Jesus and the anointed 144 000 found. Thats clear.
Watchtower is a incorporated company, the name is registrated in the US patent & Trademark Office. If authority, then you obviously mean that one of the Faithful & Discreet Slave. These are persons counting to the anointed ones. Watchtower contain of two different groups now: Anointed ones who are mostly older than 80 (corporated under the WTS of PA) and the Max Larsson's group containing non-anointed ones (corporated under WTS of N.Y.).
WTS always declared there is a difference between "Watchtower" and the F&DS. New light now? Please explain.
Futher:Any brother who deliberately seeks to undermine the trust of Jehovah’s Witnesses in their leadership is wicked and has no place in God’s household of faithful ministers.
Question: What do you understand as "leadership"? YHVH/JHWH and Jesus Christ together with the 144 000 anointed ones?If I made false allegations, please tell me.
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607BCisAbigLIE
Joelbear, I think we already have the answer:
Changing the meaning of the 1914 generation!! LOL
In doing so, the WT retired itself from their responsibility of the almost 1 century long false teaching of the 1914 generation, which said that the ones who were aware of the events that happened since 1914 would be alive when Armagedon arrives. So in 1995, they have subtily change that teaching, replacing the 1914 generation by "it will come very soon" or something like that. Their teaching of the 1914 generation has come to its end because the people of that generation are almost all dead now, shortening the time before Armagedon. So to cover that false teaching, they had to do something. But in doing so they deceived more JWs. And they have come with something that really shows their inconsistencies about their Bible misinterpretations.
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JT
YK is just too good. I mean we could never make up this type of stuff by ourselves. We indeed need the help of guys like YK
This has got to be the best little gem i have seen in awhile--YK says:
"The Watchtower appropriately is a prophet of sorts"
I had to email my fellow workmates this continuing thread
now let's break this bad boy down- YK calls the WT:
"A Prophets of sorts"
you take your child to the hospital and some guy tells you that he is:
"A Dr of Sorts"
You are flying to NY from LA some dude hops up in the pilots seat and annouces to all on the plane: "I'm a Pilot of sorts"
you have been accused of 1st degree murder and the guy you are using as your attorney says; "I'm a Lawyer of sorts"
YK REACH FOR THOSE STRAWS BABY REACH