How I know what I know...

by AGuest 71 Replies latest jw friends

BabaYaga

Jeff said:
And I guarantee you this, if we all met each other for real, I am sure for the most part we would get along, and that we would be surprised at how much we would learn about each other.
Mythbuster

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mOEU87SBTU
(AGuest Rocks!)
myelaine

dear AGuest...
you said: Unfortunately, you are mistaken. VERY mistaken. Christ is the ONLY one who can spare the children of God. And Israel, for the most part, rejected him.
lots of people have and do spare the children of God from lots of "things" Shelby. Are you saying that God isn't using the state of Israel for anything? God doesn't use groups of people or individuals as a means of revealing truth about the Truth anymore?
revelation 22:2...according to what you have said...Jesus is the tree, Jesus is the stream and He sits on the throne. (the picture is Jesus sitting on the throne and "flowing" down so that He can drink Himself.)...lets not throw logic completely out the window!!!...how DO "earthly" things work Shelby?
do you have any visible authority over you as far as spiritual "things"?...and is that authority a man?...call me old fashioned...:)
love michelle
myelaine

dear AGuest...
One idea behind the symbolisim of the tree of life is: Interaction of God with the world.
Jesus made His roots in Israel. The tree was Jewish before it was Gentile. God interacting with a people group on earth produced a tree called Israel. God's special tree.
This tree doesn't lean to the left or the right but stands upright fittly joined in the faith (in and through jeus Christ) The visible top branch of the tree is the pope but he is under the authority of the tree. THE TREE SUPPORTS HIM HE DOES NOT SUPPORT THE TREE. (one touchstone of the faith of this tree is the trinity doctrine, if you don't have this doctrine you are a different tree [1 john 2:19]. the tree that I speak of is the biggest tree in the world and it has deep roots.)
Practically speaking the roots of the tree are quite "exposed" at this time. practically speaking the state of "being' Israel could bee skeletal in a couple of generations because of disunity (John 17:9-12) Theoretically speaking the remains reveal the "son of destruction"...the complete opposite of any tree of life.
I get the "sense" that the "practical" has grown along with the "theoretical" model...maybe you don't.
INTERLUDE; At a joint news conference with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in Damascus on Thursday, iran President mahmoud Ahmadinejad blustered that "a Middle East without Zionism is a divine promise". he added that "the Zionist entity is reaching the threshold of nonexistance...The death of the Zionist entity is certain." This time "all nations of the region will standfast and will UPROOT it." ~ National Post > [email protected] ~
Jesus Christ reconciled us to the Lord GOD of Israel...The Lord GOD who said this: Isaiah 49:22-23...to the "practical" State of Israel who would be in the position to say this: Isaiah 49:14-21 (please note the reference to ZION)
Only the church called out of the nations has entered into a contract with the Lord GOD.
So...there is my "theory" regarding the tree in revelation 22:2...would you *hug* the tree that kisses The Son?
Will the church "see" these scriptures (isaiah 34:4-5 & revelation 6:13-14) and "hear" that in a "practical" way this is where the rubber meets the road...dramatically?...(isaiah 49:26, romans 11:24-27)
love michelle
cantleave

Absolutely fascinating post.
Aguest / Shelby, even though I do not get on very well with style of writing or a lot of what you actually write, you do make me think. I am not a spiritually minded person at present but neither am I totally secular, so to have someone here who expresses a spiritual dimension to counter the many secularists adds interest and makes me glad you are here.
AGuest

dear AGuest...
The greatest of love and peace to you, dear Michelle!
you said: Unfortunately, you are mistaken. VERY mistaken. Christ is the ONLY one who can spare the children of God. And Israel, for the most part, rejected him.
Yes, I did post that...
lots of people have and do spare the children of God from lots of "things" Shelby.
Yes, for instance the Holocaust. But we're not talking about that, I don't think. Are we on the same subject? I'm not so sure...
Are you saying that God isn't using the state of Israel for anything?
Why would the Most Holy One of Israel "use" the state of Israel? And what would He "use" them for?
God doesn't use groups of people or individuals as a means of revealing truth about the Truth anymore?
I didn't say that, at all. And I'm not sure what you mean by "the Truth." If you're speaking of Christ, who IS the Truth, I would have to say that yes, He does use people/individuals, even today. Abstractly. He used the Apostles, other members of the Body, including Paul... etc.
Is He using the state of Israel to do so? The word of my Lord (because I certainly had to ask about that, didn't I?)... is, no, He is not.
revelation 22:2...according to what you have said...Jesus is the tree, Jesus is the stream and He sits on the throne. (the picture is Jesus sitting on the throne and "flowing" down so that He can drink Himself.)...lets not throw logic completely out the window!!!...
My Lord is the Tree, dear Michelle... and the river flows OUT of him:
"On the last day, that great [day] of the feast, [Jesus] stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." John 7:37, 38
I was almost surprised that you didn't know this truth. But I am "learning" you, and so I'm not so surprised, after all...
how DO "earthly" things work Shelby?
How do you mean, "work"? And what do you mean by "earthly"? I am not sure, here.
do you have any visible authority over you as far as spiritual "things"?...and is that authority a man?...call me old fashioned...:)
I have a husband... but he has no "authority" over me, per se, other than as my husband (which means, he don't got much...). He is my equal, my partner. Can you clarify, please? Thanks!
One idea behind the symbolisim of the tree of life is: Interaction of God with the world.
Whose "idea," dear Michelle? Yours? Some man's? Certainly not God's...
Jesus made His roots in Israel.
He was both in Israel, dear one... as well as born OF Israel. Do you mean he made his roots in the country/region? In the nation? In either case, did he have a choice, per se? And if you mean the latter, that "Israel" initially rejected him. Yes?
The tree was Jewish before it was Gentile. God interacting with a people group on earth produced a tree called Israel. God's special tree.
And here's where you miss a major truth: the Tree was ISRAEL before it was JEWISH. Jews are only TWO tribes of Israel... which nation is made up of TWELVE tribes. Thus, ISRAEL is made up of both Jews AND Gentiles because a Gentile is anyone who is not a Jew... including those of the other 10 tribes. That is why my Lord said, "You will be witnesses of me in all Judea... AND Samaria... and to the distant parts of the world. Israel, therefore, is the natural branches, some of which (the Jews) were lopped off so that others... "wild"... meaning the (non-Israelite) nations... could be grafted in. Christ is always the Tree... regardless of whether Israel is a part of him or not. Israel, however, is only a part of the Tree when they say "Blessed is he who comes in the name of JAH." Otherwise,
This tree doesn't lean to the left or the right but stands upright fittly joined in the faith (in and through jesus Christ)
I don't disagree...
The visible top branch of the tree is the pope but he is under the authority of the tree.
I vehemently disagree. You are kidding, right?
THE TREE SUPPORTS HIM HE DOES NOT SUPPORT THE TREE. (one touchstone of the faith of this tree is the trinity doctrine, if you don't have this doctrine you are a different tree [1 john 2:19]. the tree that I speak of is the biggest tree in the world and it has deep roots.)
No... you're serious. Have you researched the history of those who call themselves "the pope?" And the institution that sits under such men? Seriously??? Do you seriously believe the Most Holy One of Israel... or His Christ... had ANYTHING to so with the Crusades? Or the Inquisition? How about the "conquering" of the "New World"? Seriously...
Practically speaking the roots of the tree are quite "exposed" at this time. practically speaking the state of "being' Israel could bee skeletal in a couple of generations because of disunity (John 17:9-12) Theoretically speaking the remains reveal the "son of destruction"...the complete opposite of any tree of life.
Sprry, but you're way too deep for me, dear Michelle. Thankfully, my Lord knows I'm not all that intelligent and so breaks things down a bit more for me.
I get the "sense" that the "practical" has grown along with the "theoretical" model...maybe you don't.
You're absolutely right: I do not get it. Would never pretend to...
INTERLUDE; At a joint news conference with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in Damascus on Thursday, Iran President mahmoud Ahmadinejad blustered that "a Middle East without Zionism is a divine promise". he added that "the Zionist entity is reaching the threshold of nonexistance...The death of the Zionist entity is certain." This time "all nations of the region will standfast and will UPROOT it." ~ National Post > [email protected] ~
I have to admit that THAT is an interesting quote. Particularly the reference to Iran. Very interesting. And I am not at all surprised. I am sure there will be an attempt to make this... ummm... prophesy... come true. Will it succeed? I do not know. The situation is, however, most interesting. Were I to speak with him, I would caution the Iranian President against "touching" God's people, though. Is that the state of Israel? Don't be so sure. Not all who claim to be Israel... are Israel. Some, true. But not all.
Jesus Christ reconciled us to the Lord GOD of Israel...The Lord GOD who said this: Isaiah 49:22-23...to the "practical" State of Israel who would be in the position to say this: Isaiah 49:14-21 (please note the reference to ZION)
I have absolutely NO doubt that the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, will save His people, Israel. No doubt, at all. They are, after all, Abraham's seed (well, some of them). And He made a promise to Abraham. However, it will not occur in the manner YOU seem to suggest. Israel rejected the king GOD gave them... and so, by means of that king, God turned His attention to the nations. Israel was SUPPOSED to be a holy nation, a chosen people... en totale. They rejected, however, the One sent to lead them as that nation. That One, then, took first from Israel (starting with the Jews, then the Samaritans)... and then from the nations... to build God's "house"... the place in which the Most Holy One of ISRAEL, JAH of Armies... will dwell in completeness. And that One, God's Holy Spirit and the Holy One OF ISRAEL... is building still. And will continue to do so until the FULL NUMBER OF THE NATIONS has come in.
The result to Israel? That instead of being that holy nation ALONE... and rather than being the exclusive kings and priests of that holy nation... most of them will become SUBJECTS of the people of the NATIONS... who were grafted in in their place. Yes, all Israel WILL be saved... but they will NOT have the glory and position that was their birthright. Because, like Esau, they didn't appreciated what was HOLY... and sold that birthright. They said, "May our sins come upon our children."
Only the church called out of the nations has entered into a contract with the Lord GOD
.
I agree. However, I do not agree that the pope... or those who subject themselves to that position/person... are that "church." You may think it... and you are entirely free to do so.
So...there is my "theory" regarding the tree in revelation 22:2...
Yes, YOUR theory. And you are fully welcome to have it
would you *hug* the tree that kisses The Son?
I hug the Tree that IS the Son, dear Michelle... and so "kiss" the Son in doing so!
Will the church "see" these scriptures (isaiah 34:4-5 & revelation 6:13-14) and "hear" that in a "practical" way this is where the rubber meets the road...dramatically?...(isaiah 49:26, romans 11:24-27)
Again, I am not sure what you're speaking of here... except that perhaps Israel will be saved from her enemies. And I VEHEMENTLY agree. I do not agree, however, that earthly Israel... the people or the state... is the "tree" that we must eat from... the Tree of Life. I do not agree that the pope is some visible "branch" in the Tree... top or otherwise. And I certainly don't agree that "the church" (i.e., the Catholic church - which you seem to be alluding to) is the "biggest tree" or even has the "deepest roots." Indeed, Islam is a MUCH bigger "tree"... if you want to go there... and may even have deeper roots (as they are the seed of Ishmael, son of Abraham, who came at least one generation before Israel).
The Catholic church claims to be "built on Peter." But Peter was not the "rock" on which the "church" was to be built. The "house" of the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, who is the WISE man who did not build upon the sand... is being built by His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. And it is upon HIM, the Rock-Mass... and FAITH IN THAT ROCKMASS... that such House is being built.
As always, I bid you the greatest of love and peace... and ears to hear when the Spirit and the Bride... and NOT the Pope... say to YOU:
"Come! Take life's 'water'... which water flows... in a RIVER... from the innermost parts of the Holy One of Israel, the Holy Spirit and Son of God, HIS Christ and HIS Tree... JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... free!"
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
AGuest

May you have peace and may the undeserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, who name is JAH of Armies, and the love and peace of His Son and Christ, my Lord and Master, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... be upon you. May my Lord grant you ears to hear... should the time come when you DO wish it!
Again, I bid you peace!
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
myelaine

dear Shelby...
maybe you're a bird! luke 8:5
Now in the twelfth month, that is, the month of Adar, on the thirteenth day, the time came for the king’s command and his decree to be executed. On the day that the enemies of the Jews had hoped to overpower them, the opposite occurred, in that the Jews themselves overpowered those who hated them.
The Jews gathered together in their cities throughout all the provinces of King Ahasuerus to lay hands on those who sought their harm. And no one could withstand them, because fear of them fell upon all people.
And all the officials of the provinces, the satraps, the governors, and all those doing the king’s work, helped the Jews, because the fear of Mordecai fell upon them. For Mordecai was great in the king’s palace, and his fame spread throughout all the provinces; for this man Mordecai became increasingly prominent.
Thus the Jews defeated all their enemies with the stroke of the sword, with slaughter and destruction, and did what they pleased with those who hated them.
...cantleave
love michelle
AGuest
AGuest

May you have peace! My apologies for taking so long to respond... I've been out of town attending a conference and away from my/a computer.
Thus the Jews defeated all their enemies with the stroke of the sword, with slaughter and destruction, and did what they pleased with those who hated them.
A wonderful quote and a wonderful outcome for the Jews... that time. You seem to be using it to indicate that Israel has never been overtaken by its enemies. Of course, you know that is not true. I could reference the fall of Jerusalem and exile of Jews to the Babylonians. Or to the Romans. Or the Holocaust.
The TRUTH is that Israel has not... and will not prevail... over its enemies since it rejected its God-given King. As That One is recorded to have said:
" 'Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you that kill the prophets and stone those who are sent to you! How often have I longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you refused! Look! Your house will be deserted, for, I promise, you shall not see me any more until you are saying: Blessed is he who is comes in the name of JHVH!'" Matthew 23:37-39; see Psalm 118:26

As a nation, Israel has not yet fulfilled this prophecy.* So, to your questions whether God is using the state of Israel "for anything" and whether Israel is among the "groups of people or individuals as a means of revealing truth about the Truth anymore"... I must answer, again, as my Lord has shown me and directed me: no, He is not using Israel for anything at least not as among those "revealing the truth about the Truth." For it is not until they say "Blessed IS he who comes in the name of JAH[veh]"... that they can even receive the power of the Holy Spirit to GIVE such a blessing. For he... the Holy One of Israel, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the Son and Christ of the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH[veh]... IS that Truth. John 14:6 And HE is the Holy Spirit that will lead Israel INTO all truth. 2 Corinthians 3:17
*(And by "Israel," I am meaning both Jews AND those of the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel, which are NOT members of the "state" of Israel - indeed, I wonder that you, like SO many others, appear to think "Israel" consists ONLY of the 2-tribe kingdom of Judah/Benjamin... and thus, means only the "Jews"... while the FACT is that "Israel" constitutes 12 tribes. And no, when the Bible speaks of "the Jews" is it NOT speaking of all 12 tribes...)
But they haven't blessed him... yet. Indeed, in order for these to receive such Spirit, and to receive holy spirit from him so as to make such a statement, they would have to first progress past Moses... something they show themselves not quite ready to do, yet. That they will so do, at some point, I am completely certain. But they are not doing so, now.
And so, my response remains the same.
Again, I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ,
SA, who assures you that she is no "bird," and suggests that you consider the "man" YOU are following as part of the fulfillment of that parable... in light of what [OUR] Lord (?) is recorded to have said at Matthew 23:9, 10

How I know what I know...

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