God so LOVED the world.........................................WHY? How could He?

by Terry 63 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

Terry

The following is the most quoted scripture in the Bible:
John 3:16 (New International Version)
16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Here is a question for you. It is the simplest question you can ask:
On what basis did GOD SO LOVE the world?
Why ask such a question?
If you are a Bible reader and take what it says as credible communication about the mind and values of God you know:
The world of mankind had been condemned to death by God's curse.
The pronouncement was the perfect application of a perfect Godly standard.
The Bible tells us so. It must be true, right?
God viewed mankind as "dust on the scales".
God poured out plagues and curses and even drowned the human race in a flood because they did not meet his standards.
Man is considered (by God) a worthless wretch.
Nothing man says or does gives him value. A sinner must die, after all.
So......
..On what BASIS did God so Love the world?
What possibly JUST cause is there for God to LOVE what is repugnant to him?
The scripture in JOHN 3:16 is the most famous scripture in the Bible.
IT MAKES NO SENSE!
Think about this for a moment.
If man has so little merit that one infraction in Eden can condemn AS YET UNBORN humans to suffer and die as sinners---WHAT HAD CHANGED about the human condition by the time Jesus arrived?
Either man is worthy of death or man is not.
Man has value or is valueless.
For God to view mankind as wicked, sinful, imperfect and dying INDICATES GOD'S VALUATION system.
God is a God of Justice. He cannot and does not violate His perfect standards. His perfect standard is what reveals his God-ness, after all.
Justice is getting what you deserve and not getting what you don't deserve.
The opposite of Justice would be what, then?
The innocent is punished and the guilty goes free.
1.The innocent (Jesus) is punished for something he did NOT DESERVE.
2. The guilty (humanity) are granted impunity which it DID NOT DESERVE.
If God contradicts HIS OWN VALUES He violates His own Perfect Standard.
This would be a kangaroo court at work and a rigged jury. It would be a travesty of justice.
Where does this Doctrine of GRACE originate?
It WAS INVENTED by the Wretch! It wasn't God at all.
Only a worthless dying sinner would come up with such an idea! It would be the desperate invention of the wretch
to ESCAPE PUNISHMENT!
It consists of destroying God's perfect standard and credibility and blurring the firm historical (biblical) distinction between WHAT A MAN SOWS and WHAT A MAN REAPS.
The Wretch desperately needs such a Deuces Wild kind of God to avoid Justice.
THE DOCTRINE OF GRACE DESTROYS the integrity of God by representing His perfect standard as something to be set aside for a worthless wretch's benefit!
Seven thousand years of God upholding a Perfect Standard set aside and reversed!
Why?
A wretch's definition of LOVE is given.
God is represented by Christianity as attributing worthiness to the worthless on no basis whatsoever and calling it LOVE.
God ceases to be God when He ceases to represent that which defines Him as God. God IS as God DOES, after all.
A singer sings. A writer writes. A perfect God does perfect godly things.
But, a God that violates His own "what you sow is what you reap" standard is not God at all. It is a wretch's daydream.
LOVE? On what basis?
Quillsky

Indeed. I have never understood this core of Christianity, that the (supposedly 3-day) death of Jesus redeems humans from their "sins". Logically that means that humans can "sin" as much and as often as they want, since "the price" has already been paid??
This clearly contradicts the ostensible overall message of Christianity (and its parent, Judaism, and its child, Islam) to avoid "sinning".
Perry

Terry,
We are still discussing this very question here:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/187973/5/GETTING-SUCKED-IN-Ask-the-right-questions-to-get-the-right-answers
Have you abandoned this thread? You still haven't answered my questions.
Are you going to continue to ignore my questions on a new thread now?
OUTLAW

None of it makes any sense..

"I like my truck so much,I`m going to Kill the Dog!"
........................... ...OUTLAW
Terry
Have you abandoned this thread? You still haven't answered my questions.Are you going to continue to ignore my questions on a new thread now?
Count my replies and ask again if I've abandoned the thread!
You've ignored my rebuttals to each of your replies. If anybody has abandoned the discussion it isn't old Ter.
Example:
Perry says:
Please answer the questions in bold in the logic below:
If a theif stands before a judge and his relative stands up on his behalf and asks the Judge for mercy stating that he will pay the offended party 10 times the amount stolen if he will release the thief into his custody.... the Judge is NOW faced with TWO POSSIBLE REMEDIES.
(1) He can accept the payment. In that case, the offended party pockets the cash and ALL go home satisfied.
(2) He can reject the offer & pass prison sentence. In this case only the offended party goes home somewhat satisfied.
In either case, Justice is served no? It is the Judges' call.
Now, Terry's rebuttal (as yet unanswered)
Definitions of judicial discretion:
- Judicial discretion is the power of the judiciary to make some legal decisions according to their discretion. ...
  Chief Justice John Marshall wrote the following on this subject:
  Judicial power, as contradistinguished from the power of the laws, has no existence. Courts are the mere instruments of the law, and can will nothing. When they are said to exercise a discretion, it is a mere legal discretion, a discretion to be exercised in discerning the course prescribed by law; and, when that is discerned, it is the duty of the court to follow it. Judicial power is never exercised for the purpose of giving effect to the will of the judge, always for the purpose of giving effect to the will of the legislature; or, in other words, to the will of the law . [1]
You see, it begins and ends with THE LAW because JUSTICE under law is getting what you deserve and not getting what you don't deserve.
GRACE is getting what you don't deserve and it destroys the basis of Justice.
God invented the Law as an extension of HIS VALUES. To nullify His Values is to destroy the very basis of His righteous (see the word "right"?)dealings with man in PUNISHING him for his actions and holding him accountable.
GRACE means: you are not accountable.
All the humans punished by God according to His Law vs all the humans held not accountable=Contradiction. Error. Inconsistency. Illogic.
Either God is righteous BECAUSE His standard is unchanging or He is a chimera of the imagination willed into being by the imagination of men who shape His character according to their own values.
Which is it, Perry?
Here is the typical Perry non-response:
This is just gibberish.
Terry, these are all just red herrings. I have answered all your questions. I have asked you several times to answer my questions with a plain yes or no opinion. And you refuse to do so. This is cowardly. Here they are again. Please stop running from me and answer the questions in bold below....from you personally.... not what someone has told you to think.
Quillsky

Terry I believe you have a stalker.

Perry
thetrueone

I kind of think this redemption policy created by God and Jesus wasn't really such a great idea,
informing people that they have a personal redeemer may effect people's social psychology and their level of responsibility to one and another.
I wonder how much wrongful things mankind has done complacently with this ideological concept in mind,
for the past 2 thousand years, I'm guessing quite a bit !
Terry

We are hard pressed to consider something we have always believed to be true...by actually THINKING about it.
GRACE requires us to think about it.
It is a strange idea. Very strange.
Primitive man tried to bribe the gods by "giving" them something in exchange (quid pro quo) for favors.
A goodwill gesture, if you will.
The Greeks told Homer's tales of Ulysees and the gods and offering up many oxen to gain divine favor.
The Jews had an efficient (and bloody) system of killing animals in exchange for Divine exemption. Sort of like paying a fine.
New sin? New offering.
It made a kind of mathematical sense.
But, the doctrine(s) of GRACE seem to go steroidal.
None of the elements in the equation balance out.
jEHOVAH bears a grudge against all mankind. He makes certain they die for what Adam and Eve failed to do: OBEY.
So, wouldn't you expect OBEDIENCE to be the price each sinner had to pay?
Instead, a commercial transaction takes place with power of attorney and agency getting involved.
It is like a draftee paying somebody to serve in the Army for him.
Except, mankind isn't even a party to the creation of the deal. Jehovah makes the deal WITH HIMSELF!
The grudge, the debt, the payment, the forgiveness of debt---ALL THESE are one-sided.
What does the one who owes the debt DO to discharge the indebtedness?
He, in effect, nods. "Yep. Awrighty.Fine with me."
This would be like Zeus or Jupiter offering up his own stable of bulls in sacrifice for himself ON BEHALF of Ulysees and his men.
What is a sacrifice if the one indebted isn't suffering the LOSS of something by way of repayment?
Under the doctrine of Grace---only GOD suffers the loss.
Weird.
HappyDad

Terry is one step from going over the edge. The only reason he writes on this forum is to convince himself that he is not a mental case. Many others know otherwise.
HappyDad
shamus100

Terry is one step from going over the edge. The only reason he writes on this forum is to convince himself that he is not a mental case. Many others know otherwise.
The kind of nutcase like someone who just comes on here to bitch and moan about other posters to make his pitiful self feel better?
What's more pathetic?

God so LOVED the world.........................................WHY? How could He?

John 3:16 (New International Version)

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