Jehovah makes the deal WITH HIMSELF
Never thought about it that way, it is a good point. Thanks Terry.
God so LOVED the world.........................................WHY? How could He?
by Terry 63 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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VM44
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Terry
Terry is one step from going over the edge. The only reason he writes on this forum is to convince himself that he is not a mental case. Many others know otherwise.
HappyDad
Hmmmm....
Discussion Board + Topic=Discussion
The merits of my Topic invite discussion.
Happy Dad is invited to explain his criticism of the Topic on its merits (or lack thereof).
But, simply name-calling isn't really discussion, now, is it?
I Post here on and off for about 5 years.
Why?
I want to have my point of view tested by the sharp minds of others who may not agree.
Perry, for example, disagrees with almost everything. But, he gives reasons.
Happy Dad should certainly offer reasons too.
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We are given a Doctrine of Grace which makes no sense.
But, we are told IT JUST IS.
We love because we value what we love.
I'm asking how God can love us if we hold no value due to being worthless sinners.
Is that such a crime to ask?
What VALUE does a human have to God if humanity is all wretched and corrupt?
If we are "victims" of sin, then, we don't DESERVE our death. But, Grace says God's love and favor are UNmerited.
If we have NO MERIT where is the value?
You see?
Circular all way round.
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Deputy Dog
Terry
I'm asking how God can love us if we hold no value due to being worthless sinners.
Who's worhless? Where did you get that idea?
Do you know what a trophy is?
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Deputy Dog
Terry
If we are "victims" of sin, then, we don't DESERVE our death.
Who's a victim?
I deserve hell.
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designs
'I deserve hell' DD, to the xjw community this has all of the markings of our being beaten mentally with Armageddon. Consider Terry's observation- what is this particluar concept of God trying to convey, what are the problems in the logic and ethics.
Some of the texts and scriptural sayings have been equally interesting- God loves us and kills part of himself, the Son part, which really isn't a part supposedly because of homoousios, then this same God says he is not good but he is good- the Son/Father conjugation.
You know the Bishops that re-edited all of this, bright tho they might have been, sure left some gaps to be filled.
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THE GLADIATOR
Terry: Either man is worthy of death or man is not. Man has value or is valueless.
This statement is at the heart of the matter in hand. The Bible tale tells us that man had no value and deserved to die because he ate a stolen apple. Women you are also indited in this monstrous crime.
How does torturing the son of God (who later, allegedly became God himself) to death increase the value of mankind or redeem him? An act of violence carried out by man against the son of God cannot add value to mankind. Surly an act such as this would confirm mankind as utterly worthlessness.
If you or I make a mistake, we show our regret by putting things straight as soon as we can - so why did God not offer his son sooner to avoid drowning most of mankind?
The whole Bible story is a huge distraction from gaining an accurate understanding of the process that is really playing out on our fragile planet.
Thank God for Charles Darwin! Or perhaps we should just be thankful for Darwin's hard work. He did not just read a book about invisible beings and shout I believe! He observed what was really happening in the natural world, with honesty, diligence, intelligence and dedication.
He sought the truth and accepted his findings despite the fact that they offered him no escape from the inevitability of death. Ah there's the rub.
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designs
Gladiator- Existentialism 101, nice. Our Jewish friends long ago reformed their belief system and developed an allegorical method to teach how to be a good descent and productive member of society. Except for a very dark period in the Middle Ages in Europe where a few sects had beliefs of literal demons and sufferings in the afterlife and other superstitions they were fairly progressive. Many sects of Christianity have taken the cue as well and no longer read the Bible stories in the same literalistic manner their ancestors did in the Dark Ages...except, ahem, a few here
Nasty business this Fundamentalism, like getting gum off your shoe.
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PSacramento
Man has so much value to God that God was willing to Die in Human form, in the form of his Son, to show HOW much man is worthy.
Jesus said that the greatest sign of love is to give up one's life for another and God did just that as his incarnate Son.
He did it to show us not only his love, but that we are worthy of his love, worthy of salvation and worthy of the gift of Grace, even if we didn't/don't think we are.
Jesus was willing to suffer the most horrible of torures and death to show that God beleives we are worth it so that WE can believe that we are worth it.
If you believe stuff like that.
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Terry
Man has so much value to God that God was willing to Die in Human form, in the form of his Son, to show HOW much man is worthy.
Jesus said that the greatest sign of love is to give up one's life for another and God did just that as his incarnate Son.
He did it to show us not only his love, but that we are worthy of his love, worthy of salvation and worthy of the gift of Grace, even if we didn't/don't think we are.
Jesus was willing to suffer the most horrible of torures and death to show that God beleives we are worth it so that WE can believe that we are worth it.
If you believe stuff like that.
You are again DESCRIBING the process without addressing the specific question I am asking.
IF man HAS VALUE to God then man MERITS (deserves) the favor God has shown by Saving him from death.
I'm asking what is the source of that value??
How can man simultaneously have value and yet not merit Grace?
Here is what you skipped:
Man has so much value to God that....