do Jehovah witness teaches about grace and what it is?

by evangelist 1 83 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • evangelist 1
    evangelist 1

    Hello outlaw!

    It I am very new here and this is the first time I have posted here and it seems like most people here are anti JHW or ex JHW is this true?

    Is most of the people here now born again christian and free at last , and came to the knowledge of truth in Jesus our Lord as Christians , but the people here have great knowledge and experience of the JHW??

    Or should I go a original JHW society board for all my answers?

    I do know active JHW do lie straight out so I don't trust them, I caught personally in many lies!

    one love

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    Wouldn't they do a better job if they preach the message that paul taught about Jesus gospel?

    I suppose that depends on your definition of 'better job'. When you look at the organization as one trying to indoctrinate members to buy their product, it becomes a completely different paradigm. JWs preach their own gospel and use specific scriptures to validate it.

    i mean they must accept the teaching of Paul and accept 1 Cor 15 as the truth gospel sense I think the bible is thier final authority!

    No, the Bible is not their final authority. The Faithful and Discreet Slave (aka Governing Body) is.

    Roman is a great book which basically teaches grace or did the WT cut romans out there bible or translated Roman in their own beliefs and understandings??

    Romans is in the New World Translation (aka the JW Bible), however, they use all scripture for their own purposes. Once you do this, Love and Grace have nothing to do with your agenda.

  • Terry
    Terry

    GRACE is an invention of Catholic philosophy. Augustine was the official Catholic philosopher who defined and codified this doctrine.

    Because the Catholic church was the only Christian body with official political status and power it could enforce orthodoxy by threat and banishment or worse.

    When Protestantism challenged Catholicism the doctrine of Grace was re-invented. John Calvin was the re-inventor.

    Augustine and Calvin were diametrically opposed, of course!

    Augustine stressed "free will" and Calvin stressed predestination and the Soverign will of God in granting "grace" whimsically.

    This was not the end of the matter by any means!

    John Wesley (Methodism) invented Prevenient Grace as yet a third interpretation of doctrine!

    Prevenient Grace is a bootstrap solution to the conflict between a wretched sinner being able to choose God in the first place--and God merely arbitrarily selecting people (outside a person's own desire) to be saved. Prevenient Grace temporaily suspends man's fallen "choice" enabling him to make a committment to Christ. Sort of like King's X.

    Jehovah's Witnesses certainly get to invent their own doctrine as well!!

    Jehovah's Witnesses make man free enough in his will to overcome his wretched sinful state in order to respond to Jehovah's son's offer of salvation on the CONDITIONAL basis that the undeserved "kindness" of salvation not be cancelled by failure to obey the Governing Body.

    NOTE: Every single instance of GRACE is deeply flawed for three reasons.

    1.All through history God has held out obedience and righteousness as the only standard possible for dealing with man. But, all men have been viewed as corrupt since Adam. Consequently, God has dealt with man on an ad hoc individual basis of eye for eye, tooth for tooth or quid pro quo.

    This is God's perfect standard of Justice embodied in the law of Moses. The law of the sons of Noah (Noahide laws) apply to non-Jews.

    2.God has always been just, righteous and perfectly consistent in punishing mankind UNTIL He suddenly violated His own standards in the case of JESUS. The UNdeserving are rewarded and the DESERVING is put to death. (Mankind can be regarded as "righteous" even though they ARE NOT and the perfectly righteous Jesus suffers death "as though" he were guilty of sin BUT ISN'T!

    3. God is said to have "...so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son...." but no reason for loving the unrighteous is possible and no basis has ever been shown to excuse man from Adam through the Flood of Noah's day up to the destruction of Jerusalem and the coming of Jesus.

    Without a logical, legal, or demonstrable basis for LOVING unrighteous sinners other than reversing his own standards, the doctrine of GRACE can only be seen as a DEUS EX MACHINA or invented plot device to explain why Jesus had to die if he were really the Messiah.

  • Mary
    Mary
    Do they have another word for grace or they reject grace completely because it is a christian gospel?

    As has already been mentioned, the WTS replaced "grace" with "undeserved kindness", which is not surprising at all. The word "grace" gives the feeling of love, acceptance and joy whereas "undeserved kindness" denotes the feeling that whatever you might try and do to please the WTS God, it'll never been enough. Which is exactly what they teach.

    The WTS does not like anyone to believe that you are saved by grace, not works and will often site the biblical verse that "faith, without works is dead". Of course, they will then tell you that these "works" mean meeting attendance, Field Serve-Us, Assemblies, and not questioning anything the Governing Body members say. The fact that Jesus didn't do any of these things is irrelavant in the Watchtower World. After all, who was he?

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Hey Evangelist..

    Welcome to our Cyber Home..

    Actually it`s a mixed bag here..

    Mostly anti-Watchtower..We have exJW`s..Active JW`s..Pro-Watchtower JW`s..

    Christians,Pagans,Atheists,Agnostics,Jews,and a Muslim..LOL!!..

    I`m Agnostic..I have no idea if God exists or not..

    There are Christians here,people who exclusively follow Christ..

    If the Bible contradicts the words and example of Jesus..They will follow only the words and example of Jesus..

    Many of them are my friends..

    Your right not to trust a JW site dedicated to the supporting the Watchtower..

    They will lie to you..They have been trained to lie by the WBT$..

    Lying to Protect the WBT$,is part of life in Watchtower World..

    In Watchtower World..Lying is called "Theocratic Warfare Strategy.."

    Here you can ask all the questions you like without being censored..

    You will be able to research information,so you can decide if it`s true or not..

    There is a wealth of information here,about WatchTower World..

    And..

    Many people who will help you..

    ........................ ...OUTLAW

  • StAnn
    StAnn

    Evangelist, hello and welcome. I was born into the JW debacle. I left as an adult. When I was in my 30's, I was sitting in a Lutheran church and the pastor explained the concept of grace. I was absolutely shocked. I'd never heard that before, especially not as a JW. It was a life changing moment for me. For the next six weeks, every time I went to church, I would cry because I had finally realized what God had done for us.

    The JWs have absolutely no concept of grace. Theirs is completely a works based religion. It's really quite sad.

    StAnn

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    Or should I go a original JHW society board for all my answers?

    evangelist 1 ... even JWs do not have all the answers. Most have no idea about the origins and history of their organization and with the ever changing doctrines, many are left bewildered and confused. As a baptized JW, you have to accept what comes from the Slave and not question it or you will be disfellowshipped. Mind control is used in this organization. So is punishment and the fear of punishment. They embrace all 8 criteria that define a cult.

    A good website to research about it all is jwfacts. It helped me out a ton (and I've been exposed to JWs for over 46 years).

    Freeminds is another good site that also has peoples' stories and experiences documented there.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Evangelist 1

    I like to use what Jesus told the criminal, who was crucified next to him.

    Luk 23:43

    And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you shall be with Me in Paradise.

    He received the promise of Paradise and never did any works, and was a disgrace to society.

    P.S. I never argue about where the ( , ) is placed.

  • coffee shop guy
    coffee shop guy

    Evangelist 1,

    I'm a non JW. Always have been. I got on this blog because Coffee House Girl and I are together. One of our first lengthy discussions was on the topic of grace. She was explaining to me the life of a JW. Grace wasn't a part of the mindset. I asked where grace comes in when she spoke of DF and DA. She had the "deer in the headlight" look when I asked.

    Bottom line is, grace is not understood or I dare say accepted by those in the borg. Simply because it's not taught. I got on my soap box and preached grace to CHG for the next few days after the blank stare. Not in your face preaching but an honest understanding of the undeserved love God gives us daily. We're given the choice to accept, forgive, understand, embrace and seek wisdom all because of grace. It's huge and such a non-DFing thing to have.

    How on earth could a JW learn anything if grace abounds? Grace allows me to fall short of perfection and still be accepted. I am one thankful man for the grace God gives.

    Coffee Shop Guy

  • AuntBee
    AuntBee

    St Ann - That was such a great post! Grace = Unmerited Favor. We couldn't earn God's favor on our best day! Even our 'best' works are tained with mixed motives - self interest, etc.

    When JWs say God knows our hearts, and find that reassuring, i react just the opposite - i find it disconcerting, without grace! ;)

    Evangelist, Guten Tag! and i sent you a pm, upper right corner.

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