I understand grace to mean 'undeserved kindness'..
Loz x
do Jehovah witness teaches about grace and what it is?
by evangelist 1 83 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Chalam
GRACE, "God's Riches At Christ's Expense".
Romans 8:31-33 (New International Version)
31 What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.
Romans 5:1-2;6-11 (New International Version)
1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10 For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
Blessings,
Stephen
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JeffT
1. All Christians have to believe that a CURSE has been placed on them and their life will get worse and worse until it is lifted.
Vastly oversimplified, and the second part is NOT a part of most mainstream Christian churches.
2. A meaningless ritual is involved (baptism, prayer, meeting attendance, etc.) The person's SELF is buried in a hole. (i.e. they have to go to church or a Kingdom Hall etc. for the rest of their life.)
Not true in my experience, except for the prayer. Baptism does not save a person, or apply the Grace of God in their lives. I went to a Christian church for twenty years after leaving the WTBS, nobody ever took attendence. Participation is encouraged but not required. No one cares if you decide to go to a different church, I haven't been to church in over a year. Hasn't been a problem. I'm still myself, as are all the other Christians I now.
3. Jehovah lifts the curse (Jesus died for your sins) and you go away happy and unburdened.
Oversimplified.
The Watchtower Society or your local Pastor reaps the reward by using your buried treasure (your SELF) for their own purposes.
Terry, on a personal note, it seems to me that for some one who fancies himself intellectual, rational and free of conformity; you sometimes display a remarkable talent for projected your own experience and beliefs on others.
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White Dove
No, they don't teach a thing about grace.
It's all about kindness and how none of us deserve any, because we are good for nothing slaves. So, we'd better be very grateful that God likes any of us at all.
That is so negative.
Grace is too positive for the WTS's liking.
In all my years in the borg, I never knew what that word meant. I thought it was just something the churches came up with.
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PSacramento
JeffT,
I admireTerry's convictions and his strength, but it seems that his ZEAL aaginst religion, no matter how justified, is a by product of the zeal he MAY have had as a JW.
I have noticed that for many exjw's, not saying this is the case with Terry, that become atheist, the very "extreme" view they had in FAVOUR of Jehovah has now been chanelled AGAINST religion/Jehovah.
Understandably so.
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Terry
Terry, on a personal note, it seems to me that for some one who fancies himself intellectual, rational and free of conformity; you sometimes display a remarkable talent for projected your own experience and beliefs on others
.Terry is a slightly below average intellect. Period. I don't fancy myself. I'm not sure what it means, but--I don't.
I doubt that explaining why I think what I do is remarkable or a talent. As far as "projecting my experience and beliefs on others" is concerned I can't say that I completely comprehend what that means.
I'm on a discussion group and I'm discussing. I only have my experience to call upon and I prefer non-contradictory thinking to supernatural.
Hope that clears things up.
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Terry
I admireTerry's convictions and his strength, but it seems that his ZEAL aaginst religion, no matter how justified, is a by product of the zeal he MAY have had as a JW.
I have noticed that for many exjw's, not saying this is the case with Terry, that become atheist, the very "extreme" view they had in FAVOUR of Jehovah has now been chanelled AGAINST religion/Jehovah.
Let me clear this up for you.
I'm in a crowded theatre and somebody I trust tells me it is on fire. I scream FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!
I get all excited and do everything I can to get people out of the burning theatre.
Then---to my awkward and humiliated embarassment I discover there was no fire at all!
I was tricked.
Next time I'm in a crowded place and that formerly "trusted" person tries to get other people to scream "FIRE!" I jump up and
explain why not to trust them.
In either case there is action called for on my part.
That's pretty simple.
END TIMES is crying FIRE!
ARMAGEDDON is crying FIRE!
The Bible is an accurate and reliable guide to your life is crying FIRE!
Spirituality is better than rational thinking is crying FIRE!
You get the idea.
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Heaven
Do you think evangelist 1 will return?
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JeffT
Terry, take for example the statement about self being buried. This is certainly true of JW's (and many other religions). It is most certainly not true about many religions, including many Christian groups. Perhaps your statement was not intended to be as sweeping as I understood it, but it sounded to me (and I will freely admit that I've been wrong once or twice in the past ) as if you think that is true of all religion.
That is what I meant by projecting your own experience on others.
Certainly, having been JW's all of our brains have been a bit scrambled in the past. Unscrambling them is probably a life long project that will take many twists and turns for every individual.
PS, I generally enjoy your posts, they are thought provoking. I like a good discussion I read a good quote recently (I think Gandhi) "I never learned anything from some one who agreed with me."
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asilentone
Heaven, he has limited posts, 10 per day, I think he will be back.