Why do all intelligent Christians disobey Jesus?

by StoneWall 347 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  PSacramento

  DD, I see your point, I don't think you see mine though.

  You are adamant that ALL people are NOT God's children, my point is that its for God to decide who are his and who aren't and that we can't do that so we must regard all as his children till God declares otherwise.

  I don't think that God has made a decision on that untill the very end anyways, I don't believe in predestination in that way.

  ALL are Gods children in potential if not "reality", not sure what other way to put it.

  Yes, some people will never come to God, but that is not because they are not his children because he has "shunned them" from birth, or ordained that they not be his children, but because, even when confronted with the truth, even when confronted with Jesus, they STILL CHOOSE not to believe.

  We are all God chidlren up untill you make that choice were there is no turnung back and then itis OUR choice, OURS and can't be lamed on God for "reordaning" such a thing.

  If he did then indeed, God would NOT be a God of love for, as per Corinthians, love doesn't work that way.
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  leavingwt

  PSac -- That's a pretty thorough rejection of Calvinism.
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  Deputy Dog

  PSac

  Why did you choose to be born where you were born and when?
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  PSacramento

  PSac -- That's a pretty thorough rejection of Calvinism.

  Yep, it's how I roll ;)

  Clavin wasn't right on everything, was he?

  He expressed a viewpoint and it became a doctrine, that's all.

  PSac

  Why did you choose to be born where you were born and when?

  You mean why did my parents choose to have a child and why was I born in Portugal?
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  Deputy Dog

  PSac

  You mean why did my parents choose to have a child and why was I born in Portugal?

  No. Why did you choose your parents?
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  THE GLADIATOR

  Reading through the comments here reminds me of a magic cube I had, when I was a boy. It contained coloured crystals.

  Each time it was shaken the crystals formed a perfect symmetrical pattern.

  I was fooled for a while until I discovered that it was all done with mirrors.
• 

  Deputy Dog

  Somthing is wrong, my posts aren't working right. They keep getting cut off.
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  THE GLADIATOR

  Deputy Dog

  Luck it's only your posts. Why don't you quit while you are ahead?
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  tec

  I agree with PSac. We are all God's children in a 'literal' sense, since God created us all. But we might not be his children in a spiritual sense - since we might not believe in or emulate the love and mercy and values that Jesus taught. (Same as a father who has two sons - one who emulates him and one who holds opposite values)

  But God invites everyone. Everyone has the potential to become a child of God in the spiritual sense as well as literal. And neither I nor anyone else has the right or the ability to judge who is or is not a child of God now - or who will later become (or stop being) one.

  I like to think of Romans 2:13-16 when people speak about who is and who is not a child of God:

  For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

  Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.

  This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

  (Gladiator - I don't see how this is a self-serving writing for any one person or one group, which is one of the reasons why I trust it :)

  And people should remember that Paul never even tried to judge himself; he trusted that only to God.

  As for the rest of what you're all discussing, I guess I'm just curious how someone reconciles predestination with free will?

  Tammy
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  leavingwt

  But God invites everyone. Everyone has the potential to become a child of God in the spiritual sense as well as literal.

  Tammy -- That is a very thorough rejection of Calvinism.