All I can do is provide you examples, evidence, proof, definitions, demonstrations and history, Shelby.
That is all YOU can do, dear NVL. That is YOUR limitation. It is not mine.
I can't make you understand.
Nor can I make you.
I am NOT beating a dead horse since all of those things I just mentioned are supporting proofs.
(Shel stamps her foot right back) IMHO you ARE beating such a horse. My position is that your thinking, sight, vision, understanding, and comprehension is limited to what you can perceive with your five physical senses... and that MY thinking, sight, vision, understanding, and comprehension is not... but is able to transcend such... limitations.
You have "we don't know everything so I am going to change the definition of words" as your support.
And you have "I only accept one definition of a word... mine... although there are other definitions... and explanations."
Just like with Zannahdoll and other that keep trying to go this route, I feel sorry at the lack of education, knowledge and critical thinking skills I see.
And I truly feel sorry for the very obvious limitations... on thinking (critical and otherwise)... seeing... and hearing...that I see. Because I have seen and heard what you have not... yet.
This line of argument has been going on for thousands of years and as science and progress marches forward, people keep hanging on and trying to make the same argument and get pushed in smaller and smaller boxes...
I don't think it was a very large "box" to begin with, dear one. I mean, since "few" find "it". Earthling man, however, in trying to make it fit into HIS "box"... has stretched it beyond... way beyond... well, belief. Which is why there are so MANY... beliefs... and sects, divisions, doctrines, creeds... even "Jesuses."
and refuse to understand or even try to really understand these things.
Now, see... that is how I feel about those like YOU: refuse to understand or even TRY to really understand. My position is, yes, science can prove such and so. For instance, it just proved to ME that "something" CAN come from "nothing"... if that "nothing" is light. My understanding from my Lord that the physical creation... matter... came through him. He is the Light. In the experiment matter came from light. Sounds good to ME.
YOUR position, however, is uh-uh... no... way... faith can't prove a dang thing. I disagree. I'm sorry, truly... but I vehemently disagree.
It makes me sad. Truly.
I totally understand that feeling. Truly. So much so... that I am still here discussing with you. Because... perhaps... you'll get it. I'm not so sure how SOON, but it's not upon me to say. However, it is what I would want you to do for ME... NOT abandon me to my own thinking, if that thinking is wrong... but bear with me... with long-suffering. I get it that you might not get it now, but as you said, you are Israel. You WILL get it. Sooner... or later. Of THAT... I have NO doubt.
This is what makes me sad. It's clear you have no idea how it works.
Perhaps. It is also clear to me that you also have "no idea" how "it"... transcending the flesh so as to think, see, hear, taste, touch, smell... with the SPIRIT... works.
All the things you decry are the very things upon which science works and which it depends, yet you decry science without even knowing how it works.
(Hey, "decry"! That's MY word! See?? We DO have something in common!)
But, when... dear NVL... WHEN... have you heard me decry science??!! You have NOT heard that from me. You have heard that I do not put my full faith in science... because just like everything ELSE in the physical world, science is FALLIBLE. I may CHALLENGE is self-perception of absoluteness... but have not heard me decry it, not at ALL!
Just like Zannahdoll, you try to argue things and then it becomes apparent you don't even know what the words mean, like falsifiability.
One, I don't know who Zannahdoll is... and two, I know what falsifability is. It's what DOESN'T exist in "science" when they say they've "found" the missing link... FER SURE... no, wait, that was a hoax... no, wait, it's Lucy... FER SURE... no, wait, it's Ardi... FER SURE. No, wait... we don't really know what it is but we won't say that we don't know because "SCIENCE" says it's an ass's jawbone, no, it's Lucy, no, it's Ardi.
In EACH previous case, SCIENCE... SAID... they'd FOUND "it." Not maybe "it." Not, "we think it might be 'it', but it might not be, too." No, it was... it. Until it wasn't... it. Yet, while it was it... it was IT. WTBTS reasoning, I tell you. Through and through...
To my comment:
No, really, it only requires KNOWING that something is true. Faith. The thing is, that while I have absolutely NO problem accepting your "horse"... NOT because of proven theories or the like but because of what my Lord has told and shown me... YOU cannot even begin to grasp the truth of mine.
You responded:
Oh dear shelby, there you go again. You prove over and over again you do not grasp science, yet argue and debate how it works without understanding it, then claim you accept it? Please.
Apparently, you take exception with my phrase "proven theories" and assume I mean that that is ALL that science involves. But, as usual (and I have come to learn that you do this), you overlooked my words "or the like." I was being brief, dear NVL. And either you knew that, but chose to deviate... or you didn't... which only further validates what I stated, that "YOU cannot even begin to grasp the truth [of mine]."
But dear one, I am an insulin diabetic. Science designed my medicine. I fly on airplanes. Science designed the technology that allows me to do that. My son almost died from an disease that was once though eradicated... and so all medicine destroyed. Science reformed that medicine for him. My mother died of cancer. Science has made great strides in treating such illnesses and may one day find a cure. Science says that there is no sound in space. I have to agree because although I have never been in space, physically, I was recently taken there in spirit and science is right - there was absolutely NO sound. Or air. Or gravity.
Based on that and more, I absolutely DO accept science. I put my FAITH, however, in the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... and His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. Because while science may be able to ultimately test and prove... or test and disprove... things pertaining to THIS world... it cannot test, prove, or disprove ANYTHING as to THEIR world, the spirit realm. And I have come to know that THAT world... is just as real as this one... although not subject to the laws, rules, theorems, tests, hypotheses, experiments, and empirical manifestations... of this one.
On the other hand, YOU don't want to hear a word of what I have to say as to faith. So, why, I have to ask... are you even bothering? The reality is, dear one, that while get YOU... you do NOT get me.
The difference is that you KNOW what you know because you get communication from someone that no one else can talk to
Sigh. See? Now I KNOW that you have not been reading a word I've written. Not ONE. Because I have stated... time... and time... again... that EVERYONE else can hear. EVERYONE. The "gift" isn't limited to ME. It is only GIVEN to me... because I RESPONDED... when THEY... spoke to ME.
RESPOND, dear NVL. ASK. I am not standing in your way... nor am I by ANY means saying God and Christ can't/won't/don't speak to you. I have SAID... they speak to EVERYONE. The PROBLEM... is that not EVERYONE listens.
Good golly, dear one... at least I'm TRYING to hear what YOU'RE saying. You'd think... with all of this discussion... you'd at least TRY to hear what I've stated: there is NOTHING wrong with the Transmitter - the PROBLEM lies with the RECEIVER(S).
(Please overlook the caps - I couldn't get the italics to export in from my Word doc, sorry).
and those that claim to communicate with God/Jesus in the same way you do consistently get different messages.
I absolutely disagree... at least as far as by "different messages" you mean differing in substance. The message has been, as far as I know... to love even our enemies... and to tell folks that he is alive and speaks. Now, that is with regard to those who claim to communicate with God/Christ IN THE SAME WAY [I] DO. True, there are others who claim to communicate with God and Christ, but I don't think it's in the same was as I do.
This is why you can never compete with science. Science is ALL about result, understand, getting the same results and if not, understanding why.
Who is "competing" ... with science or otherwise, dear NVL? Indeed, who is COMPETING? Certainly not me. I am not in competition with ANYONE... or ANYTHING. I simply share what I hear. Whether science... other religions... or even other so-called "christians" agree. The only ones that I see COMPETING are these. I don't ask them if they believe what I say is true. I don't ask them if they can prove what THEY say is true. I share what I hear... whether others hear... or refrain. There is no competition because... THERE IS NO CONTEST. At least, not one that I'm playing in...
And pretty predictably, you fall back on claiming that I cannot understand the truth of your message. Of course I can't.
Again, you err. I never made that claim... not at all. Not with regard to you or anyone. In fact, my message is and has always been... yes... you CAN... if... you WANT to. You don't WANT to. Come on, let's stop this "never-ending story." You don't WANT to understand the truth of my message. You've already made up your mind that it ISN'T true... because it can't be proven by "science."
No one can't since you're the only one that hears the message
See above. Also, until recently, I might have been the only one willing to step forward and openly ADMIT I hear, but others hear. Have for some time. Why they don't say so, openly and honestly, is between them and Christ. However, I will remind you that there never really has been a record of a whole LOT of folks stepping up all at once. Usually, it really IS only one... or two... or a few.
and it seems to change routinely, like when god revealed things to you about me that turned out not to be true...
Whoa... what was revealed to me was absolutely true. And, sorry to say, that when you made your "announcement"... it was proven... to ME. I was actually STUNNED. I mean, I know what he told me but I had NO idea that YOU would collaborate it... not at all. And certainly not that quickly!
and then you got updated messages.
Ummmm... what "updated message(s)"? What was revealed to me did not change, not one bit.
And EVERYONE ELSE that hears directly from god get a different message.
Please see above.
You don't have to quote. You have to choose. If you choose to quote, then when someone else does you have to accept that as well.
Ummmmm... noooo. Bible folks do THAT all the time. For example, one might quote "the Word was God," while another quotes, "the Word was a god." Which is true? They certainly don't say... or mean... the same thing. Another example is where my Lord is recorded to have said "You heard it was said, but I say...". Meaning, someone somewhere misquoted something. And he corrected the misquote. No difference. And if you heard him, you would probably correct some misleadings folks think they hear/read/know/see, too.
You can't have it both ways, my dear.
Others do. Which is why you have so many Bible versions. Why not me?
Others do go to the Lord and get completely different messages,
Oh, now, wait. Are YOU saying that some DO hear? Truly??? You ARE saying that! Well, if THAT'S what you're saying... then you and I can just stop right here. Right here... right now. Because that's all I'm saying. Now, if one hears something different than I, sure, you have a right to question which is RIGHT. But that both claim to HEAR... well, isn't THAT what you're denying???
some that the bible is inerrant and literal, others that it isn't, etc.
Well, first, one is right and one is wrong. Because both can't be right. Right? I don't think one needs to hear from God or Christ, however, to know which one is right. All one has to do... is READ it. Because... it SAYS which one is right... and thus, which one is wrong. (I will tell you a secret, dear NVL. Most people DON'T read the Bible. They simply parrot what others have told them it says/is. I mean, I was truly SHOCKED when I left the WTBTS and, in speaking with others who had left, realized that they didn't have a CLUE as to what was IN the Bible, let alone what it says. For example, I can't tell you HOW many times I would say to one, "Like the account of Joseph and Pharoah..." and they would like at me like, "What? What account?" And I would say, "You remember that, right?" and they would say, "Uh, no, not really." And that was just one out of HUNDREDS of accounts. Blew me away! And then I learned they didn't even read the magazines! Say WHAT?? I thought, how can you have been a JW and NOT have read the Bible magazines??? Then I realized many were just "there." But they weren't actually there. Know what I mean? I truly did NOT know that when I was in. I thought EVERYONE did ALL of the assignments... like I did... because I thought we were SUPPOSED to and that they were living the life they SAID they were. Now, I do not say that to malign anyone - I get it, NOW. But back then, I was flabbergasted.)
Until there is a consensus, we will just have to dispense with the different sets of rules for everyone.
Ummmm... no... I don't think we have to do that. I think LOGIC would say go with the TRUTH. As for my comment about sliding downhill on a piece of bark... you respond:
Nope. Despite the fact that people do that in cartoons, that doesn't work. Unless, of course, you want a broken leg, ankle or concussion.
Oh, c'mon. Sure, it isn't SUPPOSED to work... and sure, maybe Og broke his leg the first time... or second... or his arm the third. But to say that it DOESN'T is ridiculous. It CAN, albeit perhaps rarely. If it's a sturdy-enough piece of bark, the weather conditions are right, the snow is smooth enough... and Og just happens to be a helluva balancer (perhaps he skipped his morning skinny-dip and so had no water in his ears that day)... it CAN happen. Dear one... they made canoes out of bark. Surely, they could have made a "sled" (picture, if you will, with your "mind's eye"... an oak surfboard. You get my [snow]drift...)
In your made up fantasy, he's never seen that either. He saw someone try and then break their leg and get left behind by the pack because they couldn't care for him. They guy that tried was eaten by wolves and OOG then went and banged his cavewoman.
BWAHHHHHHHH!! I am SURE there are some other guys here who would prefer YOUR fantasy version - LOLOLOLOLOL! But, seriously, Og DID slide down that hill on that piece of bark. And Mrs. Og was damn proud of him for it, too. And after she... ummmm... "rewarded" him for being so brave... and skilled... told him that HE was the "best" caveman in the clan and really should be the LEADER... not that short-sighted (due to the low sloping forehead) Neanderthal, Oog!... and then asked him didn't he think SHE would "look cute" in a new wooly mammoth cloak and saber toothed boots (which, BTW, only the wife of the clan leader is allowed to wear)...
Pick one. I have given you many examples :)
Well, gimme more, cause I truly don't see the ones you claim to have given thus far...
Peace and love, of course.
Of course! And the same to you, truly!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
