Billy Graham says Christians Don't Actually Hear the Voice of God

by leavingwt 101 Replies latest jw friends

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  Inkie

  OT, you wrote:

  Come on now, we would be told that we have to first have full faith that we would hear "Jaheshua" before we could even start to hear him answer our questions.

  Well, I am glad to see that you are finally getting it, OT. Kudos to you! Baby steps are good.

  You also wrote: “Old habits are hard to break.”

  Indeed. Indeed, indeed.

  OT, I want to ask you something, if you don’t mind. In speaking with others on this board with whom you do not agree regarding their position on a topic or what they believe, you come across, it seems to me, as someone unusually angry and bitter. Mean even. Is that how you want to come across to people? Mean? Bitter? And angry?

  Another question: What kind of man were you when you were IN the organization? Seriously. Did you extend kindness and mercy to others? Have you ever disfellowshipped anyone? And, if you did, was there ever any attempt at mercy?

  Just curious.

  May Jah bless and the Christ shine upon you.

  --Inkie
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  SweetBabyCheezits

  SBC, with all due respect, Jaheshua (Jesus) was around walking in Israel long before the New Testament started to be written. So, the fact is the early Christians put their faith in him before the New Testament writers even began to write what they wrote. So, they put their faith in him before there even was a New Testament. Does this make it easier to “wrap your mind around the concept”?

  No, not at all. I'm talking about the 21st century not the 1st century. Jesus isn't strolling around here today.

  ... So, it is possible (and probably best) to place your faith in him without the use or need for much (or parts, as you say) of the Bible.

  People who put their trust in "Jaheshua" or Jesus today have to start somewhere. Only a child or an idiot would put his faith in Rafiki the Tree God without some grounds beyond ol Bob over here telling him to listen to Rafiki's voice.

  To put faith in Jesus, Yahweh, Jaheshua, etc... you have to start with the bible or your parents or your environment. You can't put faith in an unknown concept, can you? Hearing a voice and assigning that voice to Jehushia is a product of your mind, conscious or subconscious. Why don't you study psychology before you pick the most implausible "possibility" and go with it? I think I know why. Because people who hear voices and fail to consider the other valid possibilities before nailing it down as divine revelation are anosognosic. (See also the Dunning-Kruger effect.)

  If you weren't raised in a bible-thumping environment, you probably wouldn't hear Jaheshua's voice or Jesus' voice. If you heard a voice it would most likely be attributed to the most prominently worshiped god in your family/tribe/community/environment. Either way, I think you're delusional and you're encouraging your son to feast on delusions as well.

  This is a question you can ask Jaheshua. If anyone can truly answer that question—seriously—it’s Jaheshua. Ask him. And he’ll give you the correct answer to that question.

  I asked. He hasn't said anything but the "voice" I hear in my head says that the bible did not originate from superhuman intelligence.
• 

  Inkie

  SBC:

  I do understand what you are stating--truly I do. While I disagree with you, however, I do understand. As for your last statement:

  I asked. He hasn't said anything but the "voice" I hear in my head says that the bible did not originate from superhuman intelligence.

  While you know what you heard the voice saying to you in your head, you just haven't attributed it to Jaheshua--yet.

  In any case, with all due respect. . . .

  May Jah bless and the Christ shine upon you.

  --Inkie
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  SweetBabyCheezits

  Inkie: OT, I want to ask you something, if you don’t mind. In speaking with others on this board with whom you do not agree regarding their position on a topic or what they believe, you come across, it seems to me, as someone unusually angry and bitter. Mean even. Is that how you want to come across to people? Mean? Bitter? And angry?

  Inkie, I don't get the impression that OTWO is generally mean, bitter, or angry at all. I get the impression that his patience wears thin (like mine) from unsubstantiated baloney pushed on others as truth (because he's been through that before in the org) and now he can freely expose fallacious arguments and even get sarcastic if he feels like it. But even if he was bitter, I couldn't blame him. We're all shaped in some way by our past experience in the WT.

  I would imagine he can be mean, bitter, and angry because those are human emotions and he just so happens to be a human.
• 

  designs

  Nearly all cultures record 'hearing voices' and the underlying causes are varied from several well known diseases and mental conditions to induced paranormal halucinations from starvation, dehydration, and chemicals derived from plants and animals plus self induced form of hypnosis.
• 

  Inkie

  SBC: Okay. --Inkie
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Inkie, I don't get the impression that OTWO is generally mean, bitter, or angry at all. I get the impression that his patience wears thin (like mine) from unsubstantiated baloney pushed on others as truth (because he's been through that before in the org) and now he can freely expose fallacious arguments and even get sarcastic if he feels like it. But even if he was bitter, I couldn't blame him. We're all shaped in some way by our past experience in the WT.

  SBC nailed it. Otherwise Inkie, your tone for your questions was so extremely condescending that it was clear from the writing. Since that's the case, let me ask the condescending questions:

  1. Is there any evidence that the Lord actually spoke to you? Please provide it.
  
  2. If the answer to No. 1 is no, is it just possible that hearing the Lord's voice was something you heard others talking about?
  
  3. Is it possible that your wife yelled to take the headphones off, or that you just misunderstood something (like her waving to get your attention) or had a feeling and someone else suggested it was the Lord's voice?
  
  4. Is your thought that others have also heard the Lord's voice possibly flawed? Could the others be delusional, have schizophrenia, or a desire to achieve grandeur?

  5. Would you even entertain the thought that you did not actually hear the Lord's voice?
  
  6. If you made it up as a humor (it did seem like it when I first heard it), are you afraid to back down and admit it?
• 

  Inkie

  Inkie, I don't get the impression that OTWO is generally mean, bitter, or angry at all.

  Okay. However, I do.

  I get the impression that his patience wears thin (like mine) from unsubstantiated baloney

  pushed on others as truth (because he's been through that before in the org)

  Then, in that case, he, like you, need to ask for the gift of the spirit that is “patience”—yes?

  and now he can freely expose fallacious arguments

  Yes he can.

  and even get sarcastic if he feels like it.

  And cause others to bleed if that is his will. You people amaze me.

  But even if he was bitter,

  In my opinion, he is.

  I couldn't blame him.

  Good for you.

  We're all shaped in some way by our past experience in the WT.

  Yes, some to being mean and bitter and sarcastic and cruel and unkind as result of their time in being with the Society.

  SBC nailed it. Otherwise Inkie, your tone for your questions was so extremely condescending that it was clear from the writing.

  Be that as it may.

  Since that's the case, let me ask the condescending questions:

  Okay.

  1. Is there any evidence that the Lord actually spoke to you? Please provide it.

  That would depend on how YOU define evidence in this case. If you are speaking about outward evidence, something so that YOU can say, ‘Oh, yes, I know the Lord spoke to Inkie,’ then, No, there is not any outward evidence. It’s rather subjective, I think. Only I heard Him speak to me. If I tell someone that he has, they can either believe me or not. That’s their prerogative. But it doesn’t give them any place to stand to be mean and unkind about it. Unlike the Society or any other religious organization or peoples belonging to such organization, I do not tell people how to live their lives or what organization to join or anything like them. So your meanness is a puzzlement to me.

  2. If the answer to No. 1 is no, is it just possible that hearing the Lord's voice was something you heard others talking about?

  No, it is not possible. Why? Because I know what I heard.

  3. Is it possible that your wife yelled to take the headphones off,

  Unlike some wives, and maybe even many wives (or yours), my wife does not yell. For as long as I’ve known her, she has never yelled. So, no, it’s not possible.

  or that you just misunderstood something (like her waving to get your attention)

  No, she was “downstairs” like I said, while I was “upstairs” in bed.

  or had a feeling and someone else suggested it was the Lord's voice?

  No, no other person was in my bedroom with me.

  4. Is your thought that others have also heard the Lord's voice possibly flawed?

  No, I don’t think so.

  Could the others be delusional, have schizophrenia, or a desire to achieve grandeur?

  No, I don’t think so here either. At least NOT the people “I” know.

  5. Would you even entertain the thought that you did not actually hear the Lord's voice?

  Aahhh . . . but, yes, early on when the Lord was speaking to me I have entertained that thought, OTWO. I have since also dismissed that thought.

  6. If you made it up as a humor (it did seem like it when I first heard it), are you afraid to back down and admit it?

  I did not make it up as humor. Sorry to disappoint you. I can see where you might have thought of my post as humorous. But, no, I was quite serious. No . . . I cannot back down and admit such a thing for if I did so, it would be a lie.

  --Inkie
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  Judge Dread

  Everyone is just hearing their own voice.

  JDW
• 

  Gregor

  Anything that Billy G says is nothing but ass wipe. Why are people still impressed with this guys drivel?

  Come on people, get a life!