Elderite - you talked about drinking on another post. Got a problem
(joke)
What ya drinking? I'm on the Stella tonight !
a reasonable question to any elder/members
by bigmac 88 Replies latest jw friends
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yknot
I think it is great to ask questions......
But I also believe that we all need to respect each other's journey through and out of the the WTS.
None of us are in each others shoes.....
The consequences of abrupt leaving can make the boldest of men consider the real possibilities of losing wife , children and home to the WTS!
I have tremendous respect for all the posters who serve in some capacity while being conscious. These men (and women -pioneers & Elderettes/MSettes) are probably the most compassionate and willing to offer validation and honest counsel to those who are in need. They tend to grasp in great detail the love they have for those who are 'asleep' in the WTS.
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sherah
BTW Why can't I cut an paste with Mozilla - it's crap.
You can but you can't right click the mouse to do so. Highlight, go to"edit" on the Menu bar and select 'copy'. Plant your cursor and return to 'edit' and select 'paste' to finish.
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oldlightnewshite
I think I recently read AllTimeJeff's story, I think it was him. His brother was a JW, got kicked out and tragically ended up committing suicide. As long as everybody gets out at a time that suits them, (assuming they don't get booted first), I think it's usually the right decision. Making rash decisions usually aren't the best ones. I'm not sure elders are much different to regular Dubs, or should be singled out. After all, all JWs go in the ministry and take the risk they might snag somebody into this awful cult. Staying in and influencing people already under the spell, I think is another matter. I know when I realised it was all a pile of crap, my ministry took another angle. I didn't leave mags with people and talked boring gibberish to householders. It worked a treat. Now that's damage limitation! The elders on here know the deal, they're probably having to hold back the puke during meetings. It can't be fun for them.
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cantleave
EE I'll taste your ale and share mine with you...... Brother Big Mac buy for both of us
If you haven't drunk the products of the Wychwood Brewery start with this one
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little witch
My definition of courage is this....To be scared to death, and do the right thing anyway. In this situation, the right thing is to consider the greater good of others. An elder has the "edge" over the rank and file. Don't argue that, you know it is true...Given, an elder is low on the totem pole relatively speaking, but to the congo, he is the direct step to mama. You have to deal with the elder before you can appeal or take a situation further.
It is a hierarchy, and a male dominated level of authority. Yet some elders would profess to be "protecting" their wife and children. How are you protecting your precious family by subjegating them to a flawed (by your own admission) dogma? How are you protecting them? It seems to me You do not know the first thing about being a woman, or a lowly rank and file member of the witnesses. I don't accept that there is no difference. You are giving allegiance(gulp) to the enemy, and thereby delaying freedom to yourself and to your wife and family, who are indoctrinated to accept your authority... Sorry, I don't accept that, I don't understand that, it hurts me too much.
Now please remember (lest I get another slobbery raspberry, this is NOT directed to ANYONE personally. It is just my opinion on the wider theme.
I am a grandma of many children, a long time poster on this board, and am seeking honest dialogue. It is NOT my intent or desire to attack or hurt anyone. I have an honest desire to understand, and am trying to understand. I will drop the matter if my questions are offensive.
LW
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yknot
Little Witch....
I think we both can agree that if you and I were being or seeking counsel a 'conscious' Elder(s) would be preferable to one who is partyline.
Leaving the Org (or stepping down) is a lot like physically waking up...... some jump out of bed, some stumble to their showers and a whole lot of us hit the snooze button a couple of times before we feel 'ready'.
It isn't about 'courage' it is about being ready.
Life is filled with shades of grey situations.
I would rejoice greatly if any of my Elders were 'conscious'.......truth is a lot of good can happen under such men.
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little witch
Alright, I don't get it, but oh well...as I said, my questions are not about "regulars". but specifically elders and on up. Part of my hang up is that I knew "conscious" elders who swayed always to the majority. If they wouldn't defend themselves, how the heck could they defend anyone else.
I can't get an answer to that, so I will wait and listen....its really not that big of deal, just something I am curious about.
LW
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miseryloveselders
the question is this;
because you are members of this apostate site, yet are still willing to serve the WT soc as elders,
do you still hope to
1: survive armageddon
or
2: (if you snuff it beforehand,) do you hope for a resurrection?
I was gonna avoid this thread, but what the heck. BigMac, no disrespect to you, but this is one of least thought out questions I've seen on this board. I'm under the impression I should be insulted, but I've insulted enought posters on this board that it would be hypcocritical and a bitch move of me to be overly offended. Listen, I'm a member of an apostate website which I post on regularly while serving as an Elder. You know and I know posting on an apostate website is taboo in WT Land. Yet you still ask if those in my situation hope to survive Armageddon, or hope for a resurrection? If I'm posting on an apostate website, I think it goes without saying I don't have any hangups about Jehovah destroying me for posting on here. Although I will admit initially I had some unease, I'll grant you that. Just a touch of internal conflict.
My definition of courage is this....To be scared to death, and do the right thing anyway. In this situation, the right thing is to consider the greater good of others. An elder has the "edge" over the rank and file. Don't argue that, you know it is true...Given, an elder is low on the totem pole relatively speaking, but to the congo, he is the direct step to mama. You have to deal with the elder before you can appeal or take a situation further.
It is a hierarchy, and a male dominated level of authority. Yet some elders would profess to be "protecting" their wife and children. How are you protecting your precious family by subjegating them to a flawed (by your own admission) dogma? How are you protecting them? It seems to me You do not know the first thing about being a woman, or a lowly rank and file member of the witnesses. I don't accept that there is no difference. You are giving allegiance(gulp) to the enemy, and thereby delaying freedom to yourself and to your wife and family, who are indoctrinated to accept your authority... Sorry, I don't accept that, I don't understand that, it hurts me too much.
Now please remember (lest I get another slobbery raspberry, this is NOT directed to ANYONE personally. It is just my opinion on the wider theme.
I am a grandma of many children, a long time poster on this board, and am seeking honest dialogue. It is NOT my intent or desire to attack or hurt anyone. I have an honest desire to understand, and am trying to understand. I will drop the matter if my questions are offensive.
Hey LittleWitch. You mentioned you're a grandma of many children, I take that to mean you aint no spring chicken, and you quite possibly could fit the definition of whatever "this generation" meant to the WT 80 years ago, 20 years ago, and if you're still around 20 years from now, well you'll fit that definition too. Hell, you probably fit whatever Jesus meant when he said it. You state that as an Elder, we're low on the totem pole in the big scheme of things, however in the congregation's eyes I'm the liason to Big Momma. From your post, I can tell you're a feisty old fart. I check up on a couple feisty old farts like you in my field service group. They're a hoot, and I love them. However, those women are shrewd, and they take advantage of me, more than I could ever do them. On quite a few occasions I've done more for them than what I'm obligated to do. Their families have thanked me. I've sat in on Elder meetings where I've heard genuine concern for women in the hall from the ambitious men.
Considering that you're what we might call "experienced", you know as well as I do that women in this organization although not allowed to perform the same responsibilities of males, are still far from living the life of a slave. I don't know if you're recollecting from your plantation days or what, but the majority of the women in my Hall, are not helpless little wenches looking for mercy from the tyrannical Elder body and Lord Tyranus Misery the 3rd. While we're on the subject of Venus vs Mars, let me ask you a question my fair lady. I know some women on this forum resent not being able to perform the same duties of Ministerial Servants and Elders. Being honest though, do you think most women want to do that stuff? Absolutely not. Matter fact I'll use your lingo, "don't argue that, you know its true." Most of the men don't want to do that crap which is why we're always hearing the need for men to reach out. Its so bad that we've seen articles focusing on preaching specifically to men. I handle accounts, now if you want to start doing that, PM me your phone number and we can exchange addresses or fax numbers and you can start doing this crap. I'll even give you a shout out from the platform.
I can't say that I'm protecting any wife or children as I'm single, and there are no little versions of me carrying my DNA out there. I do have two older parents and siblings that I'm taking into consideration regarding my future decision. Its been mentioned in this thread that its not a thing to be taken lightly, to resign as if its as simple task. Especially when one is in good standing. I've got to play my cards right. I refuse to turn my back completely on my family or hurt them. Besides, there's people on this planet who are going through far worse than being a Jehovah's Witness. I could have been born in Somalia, or been a harlequin baby. I could have Sarcoma, or be paralyzed. But I just happend to be born into a family of devout JWs. I'll take it like a man and deal with it, but my way. Not the way that BigMac sees fit, or the way LittleWitch sees fit. Something else, you mentioned those like myself have allegiance to the WT as if I've joined the Nicky Scarfo Family. To let you describe it I'm terrorizing poor innocent children and widows in the congregation. Look, I like you, but seriously GTFOH! You pay taxes on things that you disagree with. Your local municipalities do things that you disagree with it. Do you recognize their allegiance? Do ya, worm? I'm not spying on anybody's activities in the hall, and neither is any of the other Elders on the body. I saw a rated R movie over the weekend, called, get this..........Devil. Yes, it was demonized. On my way home from work today, I was feeling kinda angsty, so I decided to listen to some CMW.(google that) My point is, I have a measure of freedom, just like anybody else in this country. It aint perfect, but you tell me, what is?
For the record, I'm not offended by any of your or anybody elses questions. Your questions are fair enough. Don't insult me trying to sugar coat it though.
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yknot
Alright, I don't get it, but oh well...as I said, my questions are not about "regulars". but specifically elders and on up. Part of my hang up is that I knew "conscious" elders who swayed always to the majority. If they wouldn't defend themselves, how the heck could they defend anyone else.
I can't get an answer to that, so I will wait and listen....its really not that big of deal, just something I am curious about.
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Okay that explains a great deal!
It is a 'big deal' or you wouldn't have re-asserted it.....
Here is an answer: each man has his own temperament, some are followers, middle managements guys, henchmen, good time charlies, alphas, betas and lonewolfs.....
There is no one-size fits all mold here.
The WTS has controls and bells and whistles that 'shut down' typical male reaction to seize self-control of one's life. If a male acts as expected to such stimuli normally they end up being DFd losing their families.
While I am not an Elder I have had JWchildren under my care and was responsible for weekly indoctrination over summer vacation..... I don't feel guilty for teaching the WTS stuff or equally encouraging 'independent thinking'. I did what I could.......
I assume those who stay for long periods or just while planning their stepping down opportunities do the same....what they can when they can.
