a reasonable question to any elder/members (page 8)

Little Imp

We had one very different elder in the last congregation we attended. Although he did everything asked of him I noticed that he said things like "I've got be careful what I say on the platform" in his talks etc. It seemed to me that he was more aware of his thinking than the others.

He had an elderly mother, a brother (and his family), a son who was an Elder plus his son's wife and children, a daughter married to a another Elder plus another couple of grandchildren. He would have absolutely nothing if he left the Org.

I know the problems we have had and we only have my husband's parents who are in - we are so much luckier than many but boy it hasn't been easy.

LI

yknot

BigMac....... Thank you so much for sharing!!!!!!! I can appreciate your POV abit better now too !!!! Perhaps now we all can reach the middle ground of mutual respect!!! If a JW becomes conscious class but wants to try and rescue there families the know it wont be overnight and will take time. The Org has some pretty good automatic trained response indoctrination techniques so stealth is needed. A Bro/Sis perceived spiritual creditablity is often considered as to discern whether their POV is worth indulging. So being an Elder/MS or appearing uber is a great cover and works to give "weight" to their words........... A CC Elder/MS or pioneer would encourage your children to be more tolerant of you.....They pepper their talks and presentations with mild and love motivated mindsets..... Eventually there will be more of "us" then believing JWs (well at least in the westernized societies)..... Leaving has many benefits and it is the ultimate goal of all to live without WTS control........

bigmac

@elderelite:

apology accepted without reservation: in many ways you were probably right

"why so bitter towards someone (me)"

i'm not bitter towards you, EE, or any other individual elder----only the greater organised machine.

my viewpoint is this:

the elders are the key to the operation---i was in the throes of leaving the religion when the "elder arrangement" was first sicked upon us 1971(?)

i thought --great--straight copy from the mormons

where is elder mentioned in the bible?

the elders control the rank & file on behalf of their masters the WTsoc. its a clever business model.

without a body of elders many cong's would founder & fold.

if 1000's of the rank & file left it would make little difference to the WTs: plenty more where they came from.

but imagine what would happen if 1000's of elders left en-masse--think of the backlash.

this is why i feel it is wrong for genuine apostate members to continue as elders--they are seen by their cong as taking the lead.

if they want to stay in as ordinary JW's for fear of losing family/friends fair enough.

this is just my opinion, & is not intended as a dig at any individual, but as a kick against a religion that still affects my life, beyond my control

Broken Promises

this is why i feel it is wrong for genuine apostate members to continue as elders--they are seen by their cong as taking the lead.

if they want to stay in as ordinary JW's for fear of losing family/friends fair enough.

I agree. BTW, my father was an elder, and stepped down due to genuine family reasons. He wasn't looked down upon, in fact he was still considered an "unofficial" one, albeit without the title and obvious duties. Many still went to him for advice.

breathing

I agree with those that are basically saying - we have had enough judgment in our lives, lets leave people (whether elders or regular rank and file, women or men) leave the cong or not leave, in the way that they find able,

none of us has to live another persons life, and i have known people pushed to suicide by pressure in the jws, lets not carry on that pressure on sites like this

i have a family still active in the jws, and im a fader, so i know how difficult it is, and what a fake i have to be sometimes, to keep my family together, i choose to do that rather than get myself dissed and lose them all, but at least i have freedom in my life away from the jws and in my own head,

if a man decides to remain an elder whilst not believe, and participate in this site, then i say its none of my business,

its been said on an earlier post that we are all complicit in this society to things that arent necessarily very nice, and do we take a stand against everything? probably not, its not that simple,

cantleave

Big Mac - I am glad you have posted your circumstance - I was trying to get people on here to understand where you were coming from, but didn't want to be more specific since it is, obviously not my place.

yknot

BigMac....

I discern your theory.....

However the reality is that the WTS has been making plans to ready itself for such a scenario for a long time....

Up until Oct 3, 2010 it was called 'MTS' (Ministerial Training School) now it is Bible School for Single Brothers (BSSB) (sounds way less official if mentioned in court)

Thousands of men have been trained through it (many post here). If 1000 Elders stepdown in my state in a unified exit they would be replaced by next Sunday by many eager MSs and MTSgrads..... heck the Org might even appoint a few temporary womenfolk!

All in all the scenario may cause some to question 'why' the Elders stepped down but many more will experience typical indoctrinated reasoning.... 'the end must be nigh, Satan is attacking us hard'..... and the Elders names would be dragged through the mud.

If a man just steps down...... a brown-nosing MS takes his place and the Org continues onward unchanged.

If he stays during fading he can influence positively in his talks, conductings and counsel. He can rally hard on a JC for mercy, if he loses the JC vote he can give warm counsel to the DFd and their family about mildness. A whole lot of good can come from Elder validation.

I am telling you as someone who is still in and one of your children's peers....... this movement of consciousness will do far more to change perspectives then if half of the Elders walked next Sunday.

cantleave

Ynot, There are still absurd qualifications to meet, a shortage of brothers reaching out and high attrition rate. This means that replacement of elder is NOT that easy.

I served in a congregation of over 100, we had an aging body of elders and 2 MS's. I was the youngest elder (mid 30's) and the next youngest was in his 60's. Most were in there 80's.

We asked for either a Special pioneer or MTS graduate to help us, there were none available, despite the CO's request. We were told that we had to appoint from within, but no-one else qualified. This reulted in a threat to our congregation being closed.

If there was a mass exodus of conscious elders, it really would create a major problem.

cantleave

The other thing, is this, whenever an elder steps down, people ask questions and begin to wonder. This can lead to doubts. An elder who is "cool" adds to the legitimisation of the arrangement.

jehovahsheep

its encouraging to see elders on board.they can harass the establishment with their new found disageements

a reasonable question to any elder/members

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