A "Funny" Thing Happened On the Road to Damascus...

by AGuest 73 Replies latest jw friends

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  thenoblelodge

  miseryloveselders - I thought wingcommander was being mean because he admitted to not even reading Shelby's thread but attacked her and others mental state. I like a debate as much as anyone but it deeply saddens me when certain posters just come on to bully.

  Posting guidelines were also broken.

  If supporting your friends is selfrighteous then I'm guilty. This thread started off with ....For those of the Household Of God and Israel ....... so ones would know who Shelby was talking to. Maybe some are harder than I am because I don't like hurtful/hateful comments. If you don't agree then don't agree, but what's wrong in keeping things civil. I'm not the only one who feels that way either. Trouble is some do not like their bad behaviour pointed out and get quite upset about it. I will defend people I know if I feel they are being treated badly, and more so if they are being attacked for thinking and having the same beliefs I hold.

  Thankfully my husband is out of the Borg and although neither of us felt that the elders were ever knights on white horses (now that did make me smile) we always held and treated them with respect. Unfortunately on occassions they didn't always show the same respect to us. My husband read the comments made and thats why he told me to come off the computer, he really, really couldn't believe how harsh those comments were. The reason we left was because we woke up to the lies. We also came to realise that the GB were slowly smothering Christ out of the picture, something we were/are very uncomfortable with. There were other reasons why we left, mostly to do with the disfellowshipping of the bethelites from Mill Hill, but again that is another story and I have already posted on that subject elsewhere.

  Sorry for being mean to you, I should not have called you out on being an elder.

  When I put peace to you I did /do mean it. I wouldn't mess about with that at all.

  Moshe - sorry for being blunt but sometimes certain posters only understand good old fashioned straight talk. As for getting into trouble for using the word doormat.....well compared to some of the language used on this thread I think calling someone a doormat is lovey dovey.

  peace to all.
• 

  Chalam

  AGuest I have to profess to you, however, that I am not born again... yet. I am awaiting that birth, however, when I am born... in the spirit. Only then can I enter [fully] into the kingdom. For now, I am just a seed... which my Lord is still "watering." But I understand what you mean... and I thank you... for YOUR love.

  Shelby, firstly, although I do not agree with some things you say I want to say I certainly do not approve of the berating you are receiving from some posters lately. I pray my own posts are flavoured with love and grace :)

  Regarding rebirth, I stated to Reniaa recently that it is the essence of being a Christian. Without being reborn one is dead in one's sins. Here is is again with an extra verse added.

  John 3:3 (English Standard Version)

  3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

  John 3:5 (English Standard Version)

  5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

  Luke 17:21 (New International Version)

  21 nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within [ a ] you."

  Footnotes:

  1. Luke 17:21 Or among

  John 3:6 (English Standard Version)

  6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

  Ezekiel 36:25-27 (English Standard Version)

  25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you,and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

  Acts 2:38 (English Standard Version)

  38 And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

  Titus 3:5 (English Standard Version)

  5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit

  2 Corinthians 5:17 (English Standard Version)

  17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

  Romans 6:4 (English Standard Version)

  4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

  Colossians 2:13 (New International Version)

  13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins

  Either you are born again and and made alive with Christ or you are dead in your sins.

  Do not ignore the simplicity of the gospel or listen to those with their false gospels and false hopes.

  There is one hope, one Mediator, one way, one truth, one life, one Saviour, one Lord, one God, one King.

  Blessings,

  Stephen
• 

  booby

  to tec - I think what I was taking issue with was the way the "society" or whatever label we use tries to manipulate the very bible itself with their watchtower magazine and in the process create confusion more so than clarification.
• 

  tec

  I understand, Booby, and I also agree with you. I'm sure Aguest or Watersprout will respond as soon as they see what you posted as well.

  Tammy
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  AGuest

  Yikes. I can't respond just now, dear ones (sorry, and peace to you!). Just not enough time to get to everyone right now... but I will later this afternoon/evening. In the meantime... well, yikes. My face has gone from to to to to ... and ... back to . Again, yikes. But, in the words of my state's reverent Governor... "Ah'll be bok." In the meantime, glad to have been able to give some of you something to do with your day - !

  Again... peace to you ALL (yes, even you, dear WingMan - )!

  A slave of Christ,

  SA, who may need to order a helment and, heck, some chain mail... express delivery... 'cause, LORDY, the rocks and stones!! But SO funny at times!
• 

  THE GLADIATOR

  SA, who may need to order a helment and, heck, some chain mail... express delivery... 'cause, LORDY, the rocks and stones!!

  Know you know why I stopped posting as myself and returned as a gladiator.
• 

  AGuest

  Hey AGuest or watersprout. What do you think of this from the august watchtower.

  First, I would like to address their false statements, dear Booby, if you will permit me… and peace to you!

  "As a perfect human, Jesus could have concluded that he, like Adam, had the potential for fathering a perfect race. However, Jesus never desired such a future because it was not Jehovah's will for him."

  (Shaking head) My Lord would never have "concluded" such a thing because… it would have been impossible. First, because he couldn’t have “fathered” such a race… without a woman. And… there were no perfect women – in flesh OR in spirit. Thus, the resultant “race” would have been the same as occurred with the Nephilim: "fellers" or some other superhuman mutant race. Second, he was not yet “perfected,” himself. True, his SPIRIT was perfect, but his flesh was not. Else, it would have DIED. Perfect flesh… does NOT die. Adam, who HAD perfect flesh… died as a RESULT of the IMPERFECT “long garment of skin” that he was given AFTER he sinned. He was PERFECTED... when he DID die, without sinning with his SPIRIT... and then went and offered up the "blood" of that perfect life... of SPIRIT... as a "sacrifice."

  Thus, my Lord never “desired” such a thing… because (1) he was not led by his FLESH… but CONQUERED his IMPERFECT flesh… with his PERFECT spirit, and (2) he would know that the result would NOT be a perfect race… by any stretch.

  My question would be that if what they are saying here makes sense,

  What they’re saying does not MAKE sense. On any level. It is so off base… and only shows they haven’t a CLUE as to either the flesh OR the spirit…

  would it not follow that Jesus would be free of any desire that was not within Jehovah's will for him.

  And the question would then be, what was the point? So, yes, perhaps it would follow... if what they were saying made sense. Even remotely. It doesn’t.

  Surely Jehovah's will for me does not include sinning against him. So why do I?

  Because the flesh and the spirit are at enmity. They are NOT friends. Unlike Christ... and Adam... we do not possess a perfect spirit. Which is WHY we need HIS blood… to blot our out sins… and holy spirit… so that we can use its “fruits” to help… and love… to cover over our transgressions. Sins and transgressions... of the SPIRIT. And even thenm SOME of them; not all. Only blood “washes” us of all sins (save blasphemy against the Holy Spirit).

  If we,however, DID have a PERFECT spirit… we could (1) conquer our flesh WITHOUT him, and (2) so would NOT sin, and thus (3)… would not NEED him.

  God had sent Jesus to the earth to fulfill the role of the promised Seed, or Messiah. This included Jesus' sacrificing his perfect human life. (Read Isaiah 53:5, 6, 12.)

  This is not a revelation. Everyone knows that this is the premise. But it has absolutely NOTHING to do with what they stated first. They intimate that my Lord did not have a struggle with being the "sacrifice." He did. Else... it wouldn't have BEEN... a... SACRIFICE. That’s why he ASKED, “Father, it is YOUR will, let this cup be removed from me. Yet, not what I will, but what YOU will.” His SPIRIT knew his FLESH had to die; his FLESH, however, did not WANT to. NO flesh WANTS to die... even that of those who are in despair (such ones just want their PAIN to end).

  So, he simply asked that... if there was ANY other way for “it” to “be accomplished,” well, then, Father, let’s go with that other way. BUT… if this is the ONLY way… and it’s your will… then so be it: let YOUR will… and NOT mine… be done.

  I hope this helps, dear Booby... and again, peace to you!

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  booby

  mull worthy response. thank you. goes off mulling.
• 

  AGuest
• 

  AGuest

  Shelby, firstly, although I do not agree with some things you say I want to say I certainly do not approve of the berating you are receiving from some posters lately. I pray my own posts are flavoured with love and grace :)

  Indeed, they always are, dear Chalam... and I thank you for it! Peace to you!

  Regarding rebirth, I state to Reniaa recently that it is the essence of being a Christian. Without being reborn one is dead in one's sins. Here is again with an extra verse added.

  I understand what you mean. What you are referring to as having occurred, however, I have come to know that we have received a TOKEN... the anointing with holy spirit... of what is TO occur; but it has not literally occurred, yet.

  John 3:3 (English Standard Version) - 3 Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

  I only see partially, dear one... when my Lord transforms me into the spirit. However, I am still bound by a vessel of flesh... which vessel cannot see the kingdom. When that vessel is put off, however, and the NEW "creation"... the "white robe" of the SPIRIT body is put on... THEN I will see the kingdom... FULLY.

  John 3:5 (English Standard Version) - 5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

  I have been "born" of water, dear one... which is the anointing... with "living water" - holy spirit. I have not YET been born of the spirit. Again, I am still residing in an earthen vessel... the terrestrial. It is when I put OFF the corruptible... and put ON the Incorruptible... that I am born... AGAIN. I have come "through" one woman, my mother of flesh. I am waiting for the time when a nation "is born... in ONE day." None of us precede the other. We are not born one at a time. The nation... is born all at one time... when those who belong TO that nation but have died are resurrected... AT THE SAME TIME as those who belong to it, but have NOT died... are changed. This occurs... when our Lord returns to gather us... from the "four extremities of heaven."

  Luke 17:21 (New International Version) - 21 nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within [or among] you."

  Indeed! It... is IN me... because God and Christ dwell IN me... by means of holy spirit. I am a "stone" in the "temple" that is being build by Christ. BUT... I am not literally "in" the kingdom, yet, for that City has not been completed, yet. I merely have a TOKEN of citizenship.

  John 3:6 (English Standard Version) - 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

  I have been born of flesh, dear one... but our mother, Jerusalem Above, the "Woman"... has not yet given birth to anything other than the "head" of her "child," a male son, Christ. She is barren... although she cries out with birth pangs... for her "child"... the BODY... that is the "nation born in ONE day"... has not yet been born.

  Ezekiel 36:25-27 (English Standard Version) - 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you,and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

  Yes, he has put His spirit... and kingdom... IN me. By means of His dwelling... and His Son's... IN me.

  Acts 2:38 (English Standard Version) - 38 And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

  And I have received such gift... by means of which the "new creation" that I now am... has been CONCEIVED. When I was previously conceived in SIN AND ERROR... I have NOW been conceived... in RIGHTEOUSNESS. But... I have not yet been BORN.

  Titus 3:5 (English Standard Version) - 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit

  And, again, I have received a TOKEN of that salvation - an anointing with holy spirit. That does not, however, conclude my birth. It simply creates the "child"... who is yet in the womb.

  2 Corinthians 5:17 (English Standard Version) - 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

  Yes! A new child/creation has come into EXISTENCE... simply because he/she has been CONCEIVED. The new has come... but has not come FORTH.

  Romans 6:4 (English Standard Version) - 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

  Certainly! The "newness of life"... that has been created, conceived, and now exists in the womb of the Woman... the "Ark"... of the NEW Covenant. Once the complete child is BORN, however, once the Head and the Body are JOINED... there will be no need for such a covenant. Like the Old before it... it will be FULFILLED. Our BIRTH... which "ESTABLISHES" the kingdom... is the FULFILLMENT of the NEW Covenant.

  Colossians 2:13 (New International Version) - 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins

  A fetus is alive, dear one... in the eyes of God. An embryo is alive... in the eyes of God. A zygote is alive... in the eyes of God. Life does not start with birth, dear one. It starts with conception.

  Either you are born again and and made alive with Christ or you are dead in your sins.

  I am alive, dear one... in Christ... for which I have received a TOKEN... the anointing... that says to ME... although I still exist... IN SIN... I have been given LIFE. So that even if I die in the flesh NOW... I will live... THEN... when he gives me the NEW "robe." Since I have received such token... my sins are COVERED... so that I am NOT dead. My God is a God... of the LIVING. And so, just as HE lives... I SHALL live... because that token TELLS me so. Thus, I am no LONGER dead. But I was, before he granted me life. Yet, I have not yet been BORN... as a spirit being with a spirit BODY. I am still bound...by a vessel of flesh.

  Do not ignore the simplicity of the gospel or listen to those with their false gospels and false hopes.

  I promise, I won't! Please, do not YOU do so, either!

  There is one hope, one Mediator, one way, one truth, one life, one Saviour, one Lord, one God, one King.

  Absolutely. On this we totally agree!

  Blessings, Stephen

  The same to you, dear one... from the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, and His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit... JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... through whom ALL blessings... including the NEW birth... flow!

  I bid you peace!

  YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA