by Lily Pie 272 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Can I just clarify that obedience to God recognising his Authority is one of the main Bible themes. We would not be having the problems we have now if Adam had stayed obedient to one simple command.
I think it is sad if People see Grace/undeserved kindness as a license to to sin or not to obey God.
grace sounds more joyous and bountiful than undeserved kindess.
Indeed, and welcome also, Curtains.
The expression "undeserved kindness" is a reminder that we are worthless.
The expression "grace" is a reminder that we are beloved of the Father.
The "translator" of the NWT knew full well what he was doing.
Syl
I think it is sad if People see Grace/undeserved kindness as a license to to sin or not to obey God.
When I see someone make a comment like that what it means to me is they don't have faith in the sacrafice that Jesus made. They need a judgemental god to keep them in line. That is sad.
Exactly, Josie.
I am so glad that God doesn't think like that!
The WT can really mess with your mind.
Syl
Even though the Watchtower (and Debator) claim to believe in grace, in practice what they teach is a works oriented salvation.
JWs have no assurance of salvation and they think anyone who does is deluded.
Just ask a JW if they are confident that they have Jehovah's approval.
They don't.
They think it depends on them rather than on Jesus' finished sacrifice.
They hope they will have proved worthy enough to survive Armageddon and then they hope they will prove worthy enough through the 1,000 year reign of Christ to make it through the final test to live forever on a paradise earth.
What they really believe is that Jesus made the down payment and that we have to keep up the installments through obedience to "God's organization" and by theocratic works, especially meeting attendance and door to door witnessing. If you are faithful for 50 years but falter at the end, you're lost.
That's really what they believe.
Debator
Prov 3:5-6. Is a nice motivator isn't it? The "Authority of God" requires that we Trust in Christ, not the Law. I hope "Grace" is not used as an excuse to sin. I want to clarify a mainstream Christian attitude towards this topic. It's kind of like this. We feel compelled to Express Gods Love in Our Lives... Our love for God, and belief in Jesus helps us with this. We give glory to God, and please him when we act as we should. This love and personal relationship is the best motivator. We do not fear losing our life.
Lily Pie
Lily Pie, welcome. Why do humans, especially adults, Need a pat on the head from something they conceive as God or a Supreme Being in order to fell good about themselves. Isn't Religion, all religious systems, really a crutch even if it produces some good in a persons life.
You were not a Witness however the majority here are former Witnesses and one of the phenomenons we see is this Need to exit one religious system only to hop to other religious systems in search of this Pat On The Head. After a few years of that many gain the self awareness and growth necessary to set it all aside and just simple Be or as they say in psychological terms become self actualized.
So whether a person Needs- Grace or Undeserved Kindness or to wear a Cruxifix around their necks to feel better isn't the whole process a regression to childhood insecurities.
Thank you Leavingwt, and Syl. You answered my questions succinctly and perfectly.
Its peculiar that WT publications have completely glossed over these theological issues, and I have not seen an article by them ever addressing not being saved by works, and the value of faith.
Leavingwt would say it is because they are a cult I think.
Poor Syl, nervous breakdowns suck. My hubby had one at about 19, the effects of it lasted for years. I'm sure you won't be surprised that he was raised in this religion. (Yes you would think he could answer my questions, but he says he never listened because it was all *bullsh*t* and he always knew it.)
Ding, I think you may be right in your summary. This 1000 year reign thing is the worst bit of it. Imagine 1000 years of being yourself, practising being perfect.
Thank you everyone for your contribution. It has helped. It's just so confounding I have to admit.
Just one final comment. If Jesus didn't die for all Sin, why would God have his One and Only Son be crucified? I suppose I already can guess the answer to this. Jehovah's Witnesses won't be able to answer the question, they will evade the point I'm trying to make here. I'm deluded? Well it's not just JW's who think this. Atheists do too.... ;)
Bless you all.
Lily Pie
Lily, why don't you jump into the discussions on the accuracy of the Bible and the stories of the New Testament and the various theologies that sprung out of it.
Grace who?
The word "Grace" is not used by the JWs.
What The Watchtower uses instead of "grace" is "underserved kindness."
