by Lily Pie 272 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Tammy
The sad thing is, many in main stream denominations stuggle with it as well.
I think I may struggle also, since I'm not sure what's wrong with the statement Debator made, in this instance.
I'll say it this way. License is an abuse and is sin, but, it's a sin that Jesus died for.
so if perfect works was a requirement for Grace/undeserved kindness from God, we would all be sunk!
Oh, I agree :)
License is an abuse and is sin, but, it's a sin that Jesus died for.
But its still sad when such is abused, isn't it?
Tammy
Tammy
But its still sad when such is abused, isn't it?
Sin is always sad.
At some level, I believe we all abuse God's grace every day.
At some level, I believe we all abuse God's grace every day.
I agree. I think we all have times where we put aside what He wants, to do something that we want, and many of us turn a blind eye to what we, ourselves, are doing.
Tammy
Reniaa/Debator said: I think it is sad if People see Grace/undeserved kindness as a license to to sin or not to obey God.
I think it's sad that JW Apologetics see Grace/undeserved kindness as a license to implement hundreds of man-made rules (most of which are nowhere in the bible) onto the rank and file Witness telling them they have to follow them in order to receive everlasting life.
In reality, 'Grace' or 'undeserved kindness' is not in the vocabulary of Jehovah's Witnesses. While they will sometimes make reference to the idea that Christ's death made 'Grace' or u/k possible, in reality Witnesses are taught that in order to have any chance at living on earth forever, they must strictly obey anything and everything that comes out of the Governing Body's mouth, no matter how ridiculous or callous it might be. And when push comes to shove and you have to choose between believing what Jesus said and what the Governing Body said, you better side with the latter if you don't want to get disfellowshipped for 'apostasy'.
The "works" referred to in the bible bear absolutely no resemblance to what the Organization practices today. They have nothing set up for doing anything charitable (other than their 'quick builds') for people who are not Witnesses and very, very little even for those who are Witnesses. So much for 'looking after widows and orphans'. And to say that Jesus said his load would be light, Witnesses are told that they must attend the KH for several hours each week and go out pounding on doors every week in order to be 'saved'. While the early Christians obviously met to discuss spiritual things, there's no indication that they had to attend every single meeting in order not to be viewed as being "spiritually weak", nor did they go preach consecutively or door to door as Witnesses do. Witnesses are also instructed that they must do personal study every week, prepare for all the meetings every week, prepare for Field Service every week, attend assemblies when you're told to and a whole host of other 'rules' that are found nowhere in the bible.
They will downplay and denounce any sort of charitable works that other religions do, because no matter how many poor the churches feed or clothe, the WTS will never, ever acknowledge that any religion on earth could possibly be doing anything good or worthwhile and will inevitably claim that because these churches teach the Trinity, Hellfire and the Immortality of the Soul, Jehovah does not care about any 'good' they do---they're still all rotten and under the control of Satan.
So no---'Grace' and the idea of eternal life through Christ's death being a 'free gift' is spoken of, but not practiced amongst Witnesses.
What is Grace? well, what the question is really is "What is GOD's Grace that was given to us through Jesus".
It is a gift andliek any gift, it does NOT come with strings attached, but liek any gift, it must be received and we receive it when we have love in our hearts, without Love there is no Grace because grace IS love.
Grace is a word used to describe God's love for us, see, God loves us, he loves as with all God's very being, that love is NOT earned by Us for that is impossible, it is given freely by God.
God can love us no more or no less because God's love. like God, is "all powerful".
Paul said it well, "I know what is right, yet I do what is wrong" and that is WHY God has given us Grace via Jesus, because we KNOW what is right but do what is wrong only g race can save us.
WHen Love abides in US, Grace abides in Us and God and Jesus live within us via the Holy spirit and this union with us is what motivates us out of sheer love and NOTHING else, to do good works, works of love and caring.
Not because we have to, not because we want soemthing for it, not because we will be saved because of what we do, NO, not because of anything OTHER than LOVE.
Where love is, grace abounds and the reason is that grace is love and love is grace.
When I was a JW I had NO idea what Grace was. Debator's view was the one we all had. We THOUGHT that people used the concept of "Grace" to justify sin. How wrong we all were! Grace is NOT an excuse to sin. If someone wants to view it as an excuse, then they really are showing themselves to NOT be taking advantage of the Grace of God.
To directly answer your question, Jehovah's Witnesses DO NOT KNOW what Grace is. Even our pretend JW Debator doesn't know what Grace is. All one has to do is read the epistles of Paul and Peter and they will start to understand what Grace is. Other posters above have described Grace very well, so I won't attempt to put my own spin on it. I am just sad that JW's don't understand what a wonderful GIFT Grace is. They THINK they understand, but really they have no concept.
We can work and work and work, and live a near to perfect life. But that does not earn us Grace. We could immitate Jesus almost perfectly for 100 years and STILL not be deserving of Grace. Grace is a gift and something that is given to us ONLY due to the love of Jesus Christ.
James Woods nailed it on page two.
The WT prefers the term "undeserved kindness" over "grace" because of the implications of that chosen phrase.
One who is given something by someone who loves them because they are seen as worthy of that love makes that person feel lovable; they are likely to love in return.
One who is given something by someone who has pity for them and has power over them because they're undeserving losers feels like crap, humiliated over the fact that the gift was necessary, and driven to submit and obey and seek approval from their superior(s).
This is the difference between grace and undeserved kindness as it affects the human psyche.
Yeah, Mad, that is spot on. Many evangelical Christians ALSO focus too much on the negative aspects of personality in terms of why grace is needed instead of focusing on what a wonderful gift it really is and how special it should make us feel.
I love the scripture at Eph 1:4,5 where it says that we were personally chosen before even the creation of the world to be sons of God.
