debator, could you comment on my reply please? You KNOW Revelation well and what the 1000 years mean...So I just wanted to know what you think about what happens/happend during the 7 trumpet blasts. I can start a new thread if you'd rather take the conversation there? Is that possible?
*Grace* According to JW's. Your thoughts will be appreciated.
by Lily Pie 272 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
PSacramento
Grace:
Christianity a. the free and unmerited favour of God shown towards man b. the divine assistance and power given to man in spiritual rebirth and sanctification c. the condition of being favoured or sanctified by God d. an unmerited gift, favour, etc, granted by God -
debator
Hi Brotherdan
If you want to start a topic on that point feel free but It is not really relevent to Grace and would be really taking it off the topic of Grace/Underserved Kindness.
My point on Revelation was simply to clarify that the 1000 years was sourced from the bible not the witnesses.
-
brotherdan
Ok, I just created a new thread about it. Please comment! Thanks!
-
PSacramento
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_%28Christianity%29
In Christian theology, grace is an attribute of God — a spontaneous, unmerited gift of divine favour for his children—a favour most manifest in the salvation of sinners. It is understood by Christians to be the "free gift" of an uncaused and overflowing love and mercy—'totally undeserved' by humanity. [ 1 ] Christian orthodoxy has taught that the initiative in the relationship of grace between God and an individual is always on the side of God. Once God has reached out in this “first grace,” however, each person has the option to accept it or reject it, and a responsibility for the continuance of the relationship.
-
donuthole
The JW leadership teaches salvation by association. A JW has no individual justification before Heaven through Jesus Christ. They are said to have "relative rightousness" accorded to them by their association with "Christ's Brothers", identified as the Faithful & Discreet Slave Class, or more specifically the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. In their view the Watchtower Organization is analogous to a City of Refuge, an Inner Chamber, or the Ark where one must be found in order to be saved by God. There is a works aspect to this in that a JW must actively support "Christ's Brothers" by preaching door-to-door and they must be in regular association at the Kingdom Hall.
-
debator
Hi psacramento
Nice Article, I really clarifies the Grace/underserved gift/kindness from God.
-
mrsjones5
Since "Grace" has lost a lot of it's original meaning and can encompass many meanings (however nice) these days and also being used as a noun.
Hm, sounds a lot like the justification that the bOrg gives for their new definition of generation that agrees with no other published definition on the planet. A bunch of bunk. lol
Let's have a look see of what the definition of grace really is:
grace
[ greys ]
Show IPA noun, verb, graced, grac·ing. –noun 1. elegance or beauty of form, manner, motion, or action. 2. a pleasing or attractive quality or endowment. 3. favor or good will. 4. a manifestation of favor, esp. by a superior: It was only through the dean's grace that I wasn't expelled from school. 5. mercy; clemency; pardon: an act of grace. 6. favor shown in granting a delay or temporary immunity. 7. an allowance of time after a debt or bill has become payable granted to the debtor before suit can be brought against him or her or a penalty applied: The life insurance premium is due today, but we have 31 days' grace before the policy lapses. Comparegrace period. 8. Theology . a. the freely given, unmerited favor and love of god. b. the influence or spirit of God operating in humans to regenerate or strengthen them. c. a virtue or excellence of divine origin: the Christian graces. d. Also called state of grace. the condition of being in God's favor or one of the elect. 9. moral strength: the grace to perform a duty. 10. a short prayer before or after a meal, in which a blessing is asked and thanks are given. 11. ( usually initial capital letter ) a formal title used in addressing or mentioning a duke, duchess, or archbishop, and formerly also a sovereign (usually prec. by your, his, etc.). 12. Graces, Classical Mythology . the goddesses of beauty, daughters of Zeus and Eurynome, worshiped in Greece as the Charities and in Rome as the Gratiae. 13. Music . grace note. –verb (used with object) 14. to lend or add grace to; adorn: Many fine paintings graced the rooms of the house. 15. to favor or honor: to grace an occasion with one's presence. —Idioms 16. fall from grace, a. Theology . to relapse into sin or disfavor. b. to lose favor; be discredited: He fell from grace when the boss found out he had lied. 17. have the grace to, to be so kind as to: Would you have the grace to help, please? 18. in someone's good/badgraces, regarded with favor (or disfavor) by someone: It is a wonder that I have managed to stay in her good graces this long. 19. with bad grace, reluctantly; grudgingly: He apologized, but did so with bad grace. Also, with a bad grace. 20. with good grace, willingly; ungrudgingly: She took on the extra work with good grace. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/grace Hm, now let's try to determine what the definition of "underserved kindness" is: Oops, I can't find any definition for it. Which leads me to think the bOrg is making "undeserved kindness" mean whatever they want it to mean to serve their purposes and not God's and certain not Jesus (we can't have that - he's just not that important, well at least not as important as the FDS). To me grace is more graceful, more expansive, more intimate, more forgiving, more user friendly than the clumsy and unimaginative set of words that "underserved kindness" is. "Underserved Kindness" is cold, judgemental, unloving, and certainly not in any sense of the word - kindness. Sorta like the bOrg, don't ya think? P.S. I mean if ya gonna be kind to me why keep telling me how I don't deserve the kindness? It's not feel good at all. Geez
-
PSacramento
Hi psacramento
Nice Article, I really clarifies the Grace/underserved gift/kindness from God.
I think the fact that you got THAT from the article, says quite a bit.
The article starts:
In Christian theology, grace is an attribute of God — a spontaneous, unmerited gift of divine favour for his children...
But you choose to focus on the part that says "undeserved", even though that part says:
It is understood by Christians to be the "free gift" of an uncaused and overflowing love and mercy—'totally undeserved' by humanity
-
snowbird
I mean if ya gonna be kind to me why keep telling me how I don't deserve the kindness? It's not feel good at all. Geez
It's not kindness; it's a cold, legalistic, judgmental smackdown.
Syl
) a formal title used in addressing or mentioning a duke, duchess, or archbishop, and formerly also a sovereign (usually prec. by your, his, etc.). 12. Graces, Classical Mythology . the goddesses of beauty, daughters of Zeus and Eurynome, worshiped in Greece as the Charities and in Rome as the Gratiae. 13. Music .