Defending homosexuality as NOT a choice -

by AK - Jeff 99 Replies latest members adult

  • truthseeker
    truthseeker

    I think the inhabitants of Sodom probably did much worse than what we know.

    Jude 7 "In the same way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them committed sexual immorality and practiced perversions, just as
    they did, and serve as an example by undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."

    Matthew 11:20-24 Then He proceeded to denounce the towns where most of His miracles were done, because they did not repent: "Woe
    to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have
    repented in sackcloth and ashes long ago! But I tell you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you.
    And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were done in you had been done
    in Sodom, it would have remained until today. But I tell you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom on the day of judgment than for
    you."

  • truthseeker
    truthseeker

    This will be my last post on this subject because the thread is going off topic and it's AK-Jeff's thread.

    If you read the account of Sodom and Gomorrah, how many witnesses were needed to bring judgment upon those cities?

    God said if a certain number of people were found to be good, he would spare the cities judgment; but because they were so evil, God ordered that they be destroyed.

  • Finally-Free
    Finally-Free
    God gave the Israelites a command. They had to produce the Messiah. Any "spilling of seed" was considered a sin because of the potential loss of the Messiah.

    Since the Messiah was to be born of a virgin, the "spilling of seed" is inconsequential. As you say, he'd put the Messiah wherever he wanted. Whatever the men did or didn't do was meaningless. If the bible is to be believed, no man had any role in the process, and all men could have wasted their seed and the Messiah would still be born.

    Unless, of course, the bible can't be believed.

    W

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    I don't know why it should be necessary to defend sexual preference as not a choice. What's wrong with defending it as a choice. Insistance that these folks are somehow damaged or different might actually contribute to marginalizing them. Why do I care who people love? I'm just happy if they have someone to love.

  • ThomasCovenant
    ThomasCovenant

    ''I think the inhabitants of Sodom probably did much worse than what we know.''

    My mind runs away with me when I think of the dreadful things the Sodomites were up to in Sodom. (Would you ever move to a town called 'Buggery'?)

    But that is nothing when I think with horror at the terrible filth that must have happened in a town called Gomorrah.

    Just what were the Gomorrites doing?

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee
    God gave the Israelites a command. They had to produce the Messiah. Any "spilling of seed" was considered a sin because of the potential loss of the Messiah.

    Since the Messiah was to be born of a virgin, the "spilling of seed" is inconsequential. As you say, he'd put the Messiah wherever he wanted. Whatever the men did or didn't do was meaningless. If the bible is to be believed, no man had any role in the process, and all men could have wasted their seed and the Messiah would still be born.

    Uh that virgin had to be born from "seed"

    But when you really look at it not all the tribes were going to be in the line of the Messiah but that didn't stop God from making the law apply to everybody

    -----

    Sodom and Gomorrah

    God had a law for everything. If you ised the law the Israelites were supposed to follow then anyone and everyone who wasn't following thoose laws would be condemned.

    Not a whole lot different than what the JWs believe - everyone but them is wicked and will die.

    Personally I haven't met very many people in my life that I would consider "wicked" although I have met a few and know of a few.

    If a person is wicked simply because they don't believe in the God the JWs believe in then we all must be wicked. Let's see: Christ gave two laws to replace the old ones - Love God and love your neighbor

    I'm not sure what I believe about God these days but I'm pretty good at helping my neighbors, being friendly, doing what I can when I can. Even by the old Law I'm doing pretty good. Most people would fall somewhere along my line. Most people are nice, good, caring people.Calling them wicked would I suppose be God's way of labeling them. But that isn't my standard

    So dissing someone because he or she was born a certain way is just plain wrong. If gays and lesbians could choose it certainly would make their lives easier.

    And believe me there are planty of gays and lesbians that try to live the straight life. It messes them up, their spouses and any children they have when it finally comes out because the person just could not live a lie any longer.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    Leolaia wrote a wonderful piece of the Legendary cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. The Sin of Sodom & Gomorrah in the Bible and Jewish Tradition (1 ...

    It should be a dead giveaway that these are legendary places since their names in the stories are "scorched" and "ruined heap".

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    http://johnshelbyspong.com/sample-essays/homosexuality/

    This is part of an interesting argument "The Bible, for example, was once quoted to support slavery, to oppose science and to prevent women from achieving equality. On every one of those issues the Bible was quite simply wrong. To quote it now to uphold the evil of homophobia is no less wrong. These efforts will fail as they always do. The ultimate tragedy is, however, that some church leaders, ever on the wrong side of great moral questions of history, never seem to learn history’s lesson that any prejudice once publicly challenged by a new consciousness is doomed."

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    This is part of an interesting argument "The Bible, for example, was once quoted to support slavery, to oppose science and to prevent women from achieving equality. On every one of those issues the Bible was quite simply wrong.

    Giordano, very true. In addition, we, in many countries, have seen fit to move beyond the ancient Bible's ideals to form much needed, supportive, and loving ideals of freedom, scientific advancement, and equality for all, including women.

    The Bible is a very dangerous book to use to support ideals that we have since moved beyond and above on. Anyone not moving forward is left behind and struggling with their own incomprehension at why their Biblically aligned ideals no longer work. I have seen this firsthand with my parents. Specifically regarding homosexuality, they are left befuddled and angry ... and with no answers. Sucks to be stuck in the dark ages.

  • freydo
    freydo

    It most certainly is a choice - either follow the commands of God - or the perversions of man.

    You become hardened in what you practice. Integrity and virtue or foolishness and stupidity.

    Role Reversals, Feminism and The Emasculation of Men

    "I doubt that anyone would seriously argue that a reversal of men's and women's roles has not taken place in our post-modern era. The 20th century has seen a radical transformation from traditional biblical values to decidedly non-traditional choices. Women want to be like men. And men would rather have a more passive and submissive role to women! This role reversal, which began with the modern onset of feminism and has escalated into a virtual emasculation of men, has seen the exaltation of women over men in every arena of life. Thus, as the 21st century begins to unfold, our young boys and girls hardly know the difference (aside from the biological) between the sexes.

    Modern feminism - the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes - was officially launched in 1920 with the passing of the 19th amendment to the Constitution of the United States. This legislation, which gave women the right to vote, effectively gave wives veto power over their husbands in their choices for all issues political and social, because they could nullify their husbands vote at the polls. This liberation of women spread to issues inside the home, opening the door for women to exercise additional arm twisting power over their husbands in ways that neutered their husbands authority in the marriage relationship.

    With the roles of men and women in society up for debate, women, at the prodding of the liberal, anti-God, anti-establishment women's groups, began looking for other ways to find fulfillment. They were told and believed that in order to reach their maximum potential in life, they must seek independence from their husbands and have careers outside of the home. As women did this, the children were left to others for their care and upbringing. This detaching of the children from their parents has driven a wedge between the generations in what came to be known as "the generation gap" and has achieved the near demolition of the family.

    Meanwhile, as women's groups continued to push the envelope towards a position of equality with men in every area, the liberals weren't yet satisfied. In their arrogance, they wanted women to have superiority and control over their male counterparts. We've been propagandized into thinking that women are smarter and better and more adept than men. So they should be in positions of leadership and control.

    This upheaval in the social order which elevated women naturally led to the subordination of men. While men have voluntarily ignored and forfeited their God given responsibility to be head in the home and lead the family and community in righteousness, they have sunk to a level of childish immaturity and surrender of their masculine stature. As generation after generation of families have seen the father completely ignore their responsibility in bringing fatherly discipline and instruction to their sons, men have lost touch with what is really means to be a good father. In a word, men have become wimps because they don't know how to act like men should act.

    With men abdicating their role as head and leader, and with women usurping those roles which should be man's, a complete breakdown of the family as the core building block of society is nearly completed. The liberal media has jumped on this opportunity and with the full cooperation of Hollywood and the politically correct environment has barraged us with the images of women as smart and superior while men are depicted as stupid and submissive.

    Anyone who has access to the media - radio, television, internet - knows that in all the sit-coms, dramas, advertising, virtually everywhere where people meet and interact, woman are portrayed as intelligent, clever, intuitive, leaders, imaginative, decisive, in control of their environment and likeable. Men, on the other hand, are generally represented as mindless, uninformed, wimpy, effeminate, out of touch, out of style, imbeciles whose only interests are television, beer, sports and sex. Men are emasculated daily by a world which wants men to fail dismally and women to triumph over men so that children may be raised and trained to be pawns and servants of an all-knowing, all-powerful government.........."

    http://bibletruth.cc/OrderInTheBody.htm

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