So I finished reading the Origin of Species last night.....

by Mr. Falcon 65 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Franklin Massey

  I'm curious, did you get in trouble for reading that book?

  Official trouble? Like, "Bro. Massey, we need to meet with you about a matter that has come to our attention?" No. I mentioned reading the book to a group that I thought could handle it. A few close friends that are pretty laid back about things. I didn't champion Darwin or evolution. I was soft in my approach. I just pointed out that there are some aspects of evolution that tell a fascinating story. I mentioned that Darwin found evidence and then tried to make sense of what he observed and that his ideas made for an interesting read. Turns out I shouldn't have mentioned it at all. One Bro., an elder I have known for most of my life, still makes snarky remarks about my "love of Charles Darwin." Another guy asked me why I was trying so hard to be controversial. A couple that was there have backed away from me a bit after the conversation. They are still polite but they seem suspicious of me some times. I can imagine them thinking, "If he is into Darwin, what ELSE is he into? Witchcraft? Bestiality?"
• 

  jgnat

  I just finished reading a "Cole's Notes" biography of Darwin. Did you read the first edition or one that came after? My notes say the first book was closer to the truth than the later, as Darwin did not know about genes and their power to mutate and could not explain how creatures sponaneously change from one generation to the other. In an attempt to explain the phenomenon to his detractors, he wandered farther away from what we know today.

  As TD pointed out, it was not Darwin himself who slashed conventional religious dogma to shreds. His ideas were revolutionary in themselves, but not unique. Scientists on other continents were inexorably leading to the same conclusions. Darwin's book simply was a catalyst, a pivotal work at a pivotal time.

  Read up on Thomas Huxley and some of the debates that raged at the time as a result of Darwin's book. i.e. Reaction to Darwin's Theory.

  While reading Karen's Armstrong's book "The Battle for God", I became aware of another debate in 1925, the Scopes Trial where a rationalist (Clarence Darrow) and a fundamentalist defender (William Jennings Bryan) squared off. From Armstrong's book, "Cornered, Bryan was forced by Darrow to concede that the world was far more than six thousand years old...that he had no interest in any other faith, and that, finally, 'I do not think about things I don't think about' and only thought about the things he did think about 'sometimes'. It was a rout. Darrow emerged from the trial as the hero of clear rational thought." (p. 177)
• 

  Mr. Falcon

  Thanks Massey. Crazy isn't it? They all start giving you the hairy eye, like you're up to no good. You say something that isn't exactly the official company line and the next thing you know....

  

  I've got one that can SEE!
• 

  cofty

  "Thus, from the war of nature, from famine and death, the most exalted object which we are capable of conceiving, namely, the production of the higher animals, directly follows. There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved." - Charles Darwin in Origin of Species

  It was not the discovery of natural selection but the tragic death of his young daughter that led Darwin to a cmplete loss of faith. Evolution removes teh necessity of god but does not prove his non-existence
• 

  SweetBabyCheezits

  Excellent thread! Please keep it going.

  I have nothing to contribute as my post-WT knowledge of evolution mostly comes from Dawkins, PBS, and miscellaneous websites like this one.

  Origin of Species is on my list but I'm really unfocused when it comes to reading book print. Maybe an iPad would help. (Honey, if you'rea reading this thread, that's a hint.)
• 

  Mr. Falcon

  JWs love to brag about how their literature cites scientfic facts, yet if you try to discuss things out of a scientific textbook, they shut their ears.
• 

  Franklin Massey

  This past weekend I was spending time outdoors with family when talk of The Creator came up. I have no problem with someone speaking of the possibility of a Creator. My problem is when they try to bash evolution, which is what usually happens when my family discusses creation. There is always this tone of, "Them dumb Godless evolutionists don't know nuthin'." I mentioned that evolution does not set out to disprove God's existence. One person said evolution was "just a theory." I said they should check their definition of theory and that there is observable proof of evolution. The reply was, "I'm skeptical of anything that doesn't come directly from the Society." I could see the caliber of intellect I was dealing with. I said, "Well, the teachings of the Society tend to change as more evidence becomes available." The reply, delivered with self righteous smugness was, "I'll wait on Jehovah."
• 

  Mr. Falcon

  "I'll wait on Jehovah."

  infuriating, isn't it?
• 

  Franklin Massey

  Totally. I was the odd one out and his tone was meant to put me in my place. AWKWARD! I was tempted to get personal and say, "Oh, so when did Jehovah tell you that it was alright to get drunk off your *** all the time?" But alas, I, in true gentleman form, refrained.

  What bothers me is that they can't even handle the tip of the iceberg. I try to dial my opinions waaaay back and just drop the occasional, factual tidbit in to balance out the conversation. Sometimes it works, but lately, I just set off alarms.
• 

  Mad Sweeney

  I think it bears repeating that the "evolution" that Borg drones attack is usually a straw man and not evolution at all.