So I finished reading the Origin of Species last night.....

by Mr. Falcon 65 Replies latest jw friends

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  inbetween

  very interesting thread. Believe it or not, but my actually first eye-opener to the concept of evolution was during a talk in my kingdomhall.

  The brother, a bright guy with high education (studied at a time, when higher education was viewed a personal matter) explained basically, that evolution does indeed happen and is even observable. However, it is not a concept sufficient to explain the whole origin of things. I personally liked this approach, and I learned more from this talk than from the dozens of other mindless talks being given every weekend.

  Hwoever, for many, this talk was too intellectual, and he was quit critisized for it.

  Of course, the goal of the talk was to strenghten the beleif of a creator, but looking back, it was much closer to the real concept of evolution than the ussual JW reasoning.
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  Mr. Falcon

  The brother, a bright guy with high education (studied at a time, when higher education was viewed a personal matter) explained basically, that evolution does indeed happen and is even observable. However, it is not a concept sufficient to explain the whole origin of things.

  I wonder if this talk earned him a friendly chat with the elders after the meeting.
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  Franklin Massey

  Greatest Show on Earth was a great read!

  The brother, a bright guy with high education (studied at a time, when higher education was viewed a personal matter) explained basically, that evolution does indeed happen and is even observable. However, it is not a concept sufficient to explain the whole origin of things. I personally liked this approach, and I learned more from this talk than from the dozens of other mindless talks being given every weekend.

  That's pretty edgy for a public talk. Good for him. The last talk that we had on evolution the speaker said, "These evolutionists claaaaaim that they can even tell how we developed thoughts and feelings. How silly that notion is! We know that we have the feelings of our Creator who made us in his image. Evolutionists call their opinions on the matter 'Evolutionary Psychology.' I have no idea what they're talking about and never heard of it until this outline mentioned it but we know it's just another one of Satan's tricks!"

  I wanted to jump out the window. (Yes, our hall has windows!) The speaker didn't even attempt to explain the basic concept of Evolutionary Psychology, which means he presented no ideas to dismiss. But dismiss the whole subject he did. Worse, he admitted his total ignorance of the subject with pride and then chalked up the whole wacky idea as a trick of the Devil. He might as well have fired up the pipe organ, grabbed a few snakes, and finished the rest of his talk in a spirit-induced indecipherable tongue.
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  SweetBabyCheezits

  Evolutionists call their opinions on the matter 'Evolutionary Psychology.' I have no idea what they're talking about and never heard of it until this outline mentioned it but we know it's just another one of Satan's tricks!"

  The speaker didn't even attempt to explain the basic concept of Evolutionary Psychology, which means he presented no ideas to dismiss. But dismiss the whole subject he did. Worse, he admitted his total ignorance of the subject with pride and then chalked up the whole wacky idea as a trick of the Devil.

  Wow. Makes me want to shout the line from The Shawshank Redemption where Andy asks the warden, "How can you be so OBTUSE??"

  Ignorance and pride are the sick, twisted parents of prejudice, one of earth's worst pandemics.

  “The discovery of truth is prevented more effectively, not by the false appearance things present and which mislead into error, not directly by weakness of the reasoning powers, but by preconceived opinion, by prejudice.” -Arthur Schopenhauer
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  inbetween

  I wonder if this talk earned him a friendly chat with the elders after the meeting.

  I was one of the elders, and I commended him actually, funny thing though, most complaints about his talk came from the "average" publishers...
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  Spade

  Evolutionists are all too happy to label phenomenon in the natural world as "evidence for evolution." For example;

  http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090121123041.htm
  
  Evolution In Action: Native U.S. Lizards Are Adapting To Escape Attacks By Fire Ants
  
  …is an example of adaptation, not evolution.
  
  Creationists expect species to adapt to their environments just as evolutionists do. Are there limits to the degree of adaptation? Is the Fence lizard going to develop new structures based on complex cellular changes so that we will no longer recognize it as a lizard (showing progressive complexity)? Or is this example the limit of adaptation and other mechanisms like genetic drift? If you answer these questions you will have no empirical evidence.
  
  The theory of common ancestry has to show a mechanism to derive complexity from simpler organisms. Vertebrates are extraordinarily complex at all levels of organization. How did they achieve this? What are the cellular mechanisms?
  
  A whole sequence of mutations would have to be identified and determined along these lines. You can apply any and all scientific methods to this Fence lizard outside its natural habitat and it will still remain a Fence lizard. Species are static and they stay that way.
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  Qcmbr

  Spade. Please read about speciation before you make assertions that have been proven wrong. I would provide evidence but I suspect I would need to get past a wall of ignorance you have built up to defend your version of god (who for some reason would not be a god if he used natural proceses of change to generate the millions of species but is required to secretly create new species.) Just remember that if your statement about species was right then 99% of species have died out already so either god made some rubbish design choices or he didn't make a big enough planet for everything.
• 

  GLTirebiter

  …is an example of adaptation, not evolution.

  The cited article discusses how the parents's adaptation becomes part of the genetic heritage passed to their progeny. Those having a useful adaptation live longer, on average, than those who don't. Thus they produce more offspring, on average, than their non-adapated neighbors. Over many generations, the adaptation expands from a rare abnormality to a common trait; like compound interest, a small percentage gain repeated many times produces an enormous increase.

  In the future, Langkilde plans to study the mechanism behind the behavioral changes following invasion. Non-responsive lizards tend to be killed and removed from the gene pool. "Non-responsive lizards are less likely to make it to reproductive age when they would be capable of passing their non-reacting, short-legged genes on to offspring," she said.

  That is an excellent summary of Darwin's theory of natural selection. When you understand this concept, you will begin to appreciate evolution as a key tool enabling the ongoing process of creation, not its antithesis. Please read at least the introduction to Darwin's book before discussing its merits!
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  Spade

  The cited article discusses how the parents's adaptation becomes part of the genetic heritage passed to their progeny. Those having a useful adaptation live longer, on average, than those who don't. Thus they produce more offspring, on average, than their non-adapated neighbors. over many generations, the adaptation expands from a rare abnormality to a common trait; like compound interest, a small percentage gain repeated many times produces an enormous increase.

  In the future, Langkilde plans to study the mechanism behind the behavioral changes following invasion. Non-responsive lizards tend to be killed and removed from the gene pool. "Non-responsive lizards are less likely to make it to reproductive age when they would be capable of passing their non-reacting, short-legged genes on to offspring," she said.

  That is an excellent summary of Darwin's theory of natural selection. When you understand this concept, you will begin to appreciate evolution as a key tool enabling the ongoing process of creation, not its antithesis. Please read at least the introduction to Darwin's book before discussing its merits!

  Don't you represent the Catholic version of evolution: theistic evolution?
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  cofty

  Species are static and they stay that way. - Spade

  How are you defining species?