So I finished reading the Origin of Species last night.....

by Mr. Falcon 65 Replies latest jw friends

  • Franklin Massey
    Franklin Massey

    Yesterday, I had a conversation about the subject of evolution with one of the few JWs I can speak openly (kind of) with. I said, "The facts and evidence for evolution continue to pile up in so many different areas of the sciences. We are at a point where those who do not believe that evolution of some significant sort happened will be rightfully labeled as 'ignorant fools.' I'm not going to sit around and wait for the Watchtower to catch up on this subject."

    The reply was, "Does this mean you don't believe God was the Creator? Where is Jehovah in all of this?"

    I said, without expressing my personal feelings, "Acknowledging that evolution has happened, and is happening now, doesn't mean that you don't believe in God. If anything, examining the facts and embracing the evidence only serves to provide a more accurate picture of who God is and what God has done. Now, one might have to go back to their understanding of the Genesis account and do some reconciling. But if you read the WT interpretation of Genesis, this has already been done in reaction to overwhelming evidence."

    "What do you mean?"

    "JWs don't believe that the earth was created in six literal days. However, if you read Genesis literally, it says that God did it all in six days. If you believe that God can do anything, then God could have done it all in six days. But when the evidence is examined, it is apparent that the forces that shaped earth and everything on it have been in motion for billions of years. To hold on to the idea of six literal days is foolish in light of all the available evidence. It is the same with evolution. The facts force us to go back and look at the account again. We only stand to get a clearer picture of how it all really happened."

    They were cool with that.

  • Lunatic Faith
    Lunatic Faith

    A brother came to our hall once to give the Sunday public talk. His subject was evolution or creation and the "facts" he stated to support creation were so stupid they bore no resemblance to the actual truth. Yet he was up there spouting off this stuff and the congregation was eating it up. My dad, who was a profound studier and ex-elder because he couldn't be a team player, kept visibly flinching every time the brother would state something that betrayed his total ignorance.

    So after the meeting my dad goes up to this brother and asks him where he got his information. Another elder in my dads hall overheard the question and proceeded to give my father a public tongue lashing on how he had no right to question those clearly selected by God's Holy Spirit and appointed as shepherds. He humiliated my father. So dad did what he always did, apologized for thinking independently and withdrew his question.

    F@*$ing assholes! Sorry. I have a plethora of those stories that get me riled every time. Yet, you may ask, why did it take me 38 years to leave? My father taught us by example how to be doormats.

  • Mr. Falcon
    Mr. Falcon

    Massey - The fact that their first reaction to your statement was to immediately question you as to whether you believe in God is the typical Pavlovian response that betrays a fundemental lack of education. If it's not cited in their blue book from 20+ years ago, then you, sir are a liar and a cur.

    If it's ain't done printed in Brooklyn, then it's a dang-blasted lie from the Devil!

    Lunatic Faith - Sweetheart, if you're father was a doormat, then my father was a driveway.

  • Franklin Massey
    Franklin Massey

    Lunatic, I posted this earlier in this thread:

    The last talk that we had on evolution the speaker said, "These evolutionists claaaaaim that they can even tell how we developed thoughts and feelings. How silly that notion is! We know that we have the feelings of our Creator who made us in his image. Evolutionists call their opinions on the matter 'Evolutionary Psychology.' I have no idea what they're talking about and never heard of it until this outline mentioned it but we know it's just another one of Satan's tricks!"

    I wanted to jump out the window. (Yes, our hall has windows!) The speaker didn't even attempt to explain the basic concept of Evolutionary Psychology, which means he presented no ideas to dismiss. But dismiss the whole subject he did. Worse, he admitted his total ignorance of the subject with pride and then chalked up the whole wacky idea as a trick of the Devil. He might as well have fired up the pipe organ, grabbed a few snakes, and finished the rest of his talk in a spirit-induced indecipherable tongue.

    I bet it was the same outline that you mentioned.

    Your account brings up a good point: Why is it wrong to ask a public speaker about their sources and info? What if a speaker was using outdated/inaccurate material or citing a teaching that JWs no longer use? Shouldn't the speaker be notified so that a correction could be made, preventing future talks from being innaccurate? I would appreciate having such knowledge. If you have ever been to a public lecture or a book reading, there is always some time after the session to discuss things with the speaker/author. But in JW congregations, all we get is a receiving line for handshakes and praise, whether the speaker or discussion was good or not.

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    SweetBabyCheezits
    Zoiks: Cheez, I must say that I don't envy you in that respect, except when it comes to your having lots of material to work with, comedy-wise.

    I kid you not, Zoiks, I just received a mass-FWD email this morning from a fellow employee and, based on its content, I had to read it in the very same voice I used when I wrote that redneck pledge yesterday. I've gotta share it but I'll post it in a new thread. I'm sure my opposing view will make a good target for right wingists(?). :-D

    Cheez, you won't hear that kind of reasoning in a Kingdom Hall!!!

    True that, Mr. Falcon. True that.

  • unshackled
    unshackled

    Bumping this thread because of its overall awesomeness.

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