by VM44 55 Replies latest watchtower scandals
atan owns every false religion on the planet-he infiltrated lies into them centuries ago, never corrected. satan is posing as God in those religions-the only religion he needs to attack is the one that has the real Jesus, and he does infiltrate-so corrections must be made. Find the religion that makes corrections in front of the hearts of the ridiculers and that religion will prove to have Jesus in the end.
Here's a penny for your thoughts, dear kjw53: is atheism part of Babylon the Great?
God
Jesus
Apostles ( faithful slave )
Domestics.
One problem (of many) with that: According to the Watchtower corporation, the 1st-Century Governing Body was in Jerusalem and Paul wasn't. The Society tries to tell us that Paul (a Spirit-anointed apostle) submitted to and obeyed the "older men" in Jerusalem, because they were the Bethel of that time. They actually attempt to use an event in Acts 15, where Paul travels to Jerusalem to tell the Pharisees there to remove their heads from their respective rectums over the circumcision doctrine they were attempting to enforce on gentile members (v5).
They so twist what obviously occurred, they actually try to make us believe Paul went there to ask them to make a decision (note v19), then he humbly passed it on to other congregations. The reality is that they were the source of misinformation (v24) and Paul went there and told them - in no uncertain terms - that he was there to bust heads unless they got their congregation under control, because they were denying the Christ by adhering to the Mosaic Law.
Of course, from reading about Paul's activities, we find he didn't "check in" with the Jerusalem congregation at all. He went all over the continent, at the behest of the Holy Spirit and never felt the need to get the okay from (or "wait on Jehovah", via) Brooklyn, Jerusalem. The Society would have us believe Paul was sent hither and thither - to serve where a 1 st -Century Service Department decided the need was greater - like a Gilead graduate.
Hello Moshe. Thanks for your post. Your are correct that I do need to get out of the house more, probably quite a bit more.
I have studied the Bible with various groups and have honestly found that the general ideas put forward by Witnesses are consistant with the Bible, ie, God's Kingdom on earth, the end of this man made world, Jesus' instructions to get to the Father, etc, are actually in the Bible. However, it does seem that some within the WTBTS GB have not been entirely honest and the official reasons given seem a little hollow and not altogether Christian in ethic .
May I kindly ask what a Shill is? If it's horrible it's probably deserved anyway and I do have a very thick skin having once been a Mormon.
I must point out that this site is excellent for discovering the hidden history of the WTS - especially the links to the UN which are most surprising and confusing, and for that I thank ALL involved.
Overall, I still cannot help but think that most of what Witnesses say is very sound and well argued, even though they are as susceptable to human error as are all of us. I don't feel that the GB is deliberately trying to mislead, but I am NOT expert in this field and this is early opinion only. However, it is clear that personal conscience and the Bible must be my guide at this time rather than the Witnesses' GB, who I know very very little about just heresay and who do in all fairness appear to have a few questions to answer. Indeed, they may have already done so elsewhere that I haven't seen.
In conclusion - I'm no expert just a viewer so best wishes to ALL my fellow humans. - apparently, if you sit me in a quiet corner and pat me gently on the head occassionally in passing I stop waffling on.
VM44 - Thanks for that chart from the 71 WT. It is really unbelievable they could ever have put it out like that. Guess those were the days they admitted the truth of how they were operating more blatantly. Notice the ministerial servants don't have to go thru the elders - but direct to the GB - now that is a new one. Maybe this was someone's new brainstorm at the time cause I don't believe it has ever operated like that. And today's chart would not have any lines drawn up to Christ - it all stops point blank with the GB - a grand bottleneck me calls it! And I think also the chart for today would just eliminate the nice big box for FDS since in truth they operate like the GB is IT - period.
They also call themselves the Temple of God because their definition of that is "WHERE true worship is practized" (msp on purpose) - so they have set themselves down in The Temple of The God as an object of reverence - see 2 Thessalonians verse 4. See Chapters 5 and 6 of Paradise Restored to Mankind - pages 89 or 121 applications of Haggai's Chapter 2 to themselves. This was pointed out to me by a current GB member himself when I was contesting that we are ourselves a temple of the living God - 2 Cor. 6:16. He was very visibly upset by my "misapplication" of what He believed to be the correct view.
The intention of Jehovah's Witnesses is to worship Jehovah God through Jesus Christ. I think the problem comes in when the Governing Body restricts how that is done by means of asserting their seemingly unlimited authority. In short, Jesus said, "No one comes to the Father except through me." The Governing Body says, and this quite literally, as numerous direct Watchtower quotes could be cited on this, "No one comes to Jesus, OR the Father, except through us. If you are not part of our organization, you have rejected God."
To take that position is, albeit in a subtle, indirect sort of way, is to present themselves as being equal to Christ (which again, is literally true if they are to rule alongside him, as CO-RULERS in the Kingdom over everyone else). Anyone who does this, even unintentionally, is guilty of making an idol out of themselves.
The true Christian hierarchy is supposed to be:
God
Jesus
Everybody Else
Jesus said that "all you are brothers". The apostles and prophets' teachings were to be considered as the foundation, with Jesus as the cornerstone. But this did not by any means make the apostles above being corrected as necessary. But they received their teaching directly from Jesus and the holy spirit. Today, the Governing Body is assuming that same position while providing a well-documented history of error that suggests a clear lack of understanding of how to read the Bible properly (ie. by reading the context of a verse rather than lifting it and combining it with another verse lifted out of context to form teachings).
The apostles met to discuss circumcision and made a decision. Once. They didn't turn around and write again, saying, "Evidently, circumcision IS a Christian requirement." Because they only needed to adjust one time. They didn't have to constantly repair their theology like it was a used car as the Witnesses have to do. Because they knew the truth they'd been taught once for all time. And indeed, even before they met on the circumcision issue, holy spirit had already made clear what needed to be done anyway--and was just waiting on them to figure it out! God basically went over their heads to make clear who he gave his spirit to--anybody who believed. In contrast, JWs feel as if God would never make a decision apart from using the Governing Body to make it law. If anything outside-the-box happened like that amongst JWs, Cornelius could well have been rejected from baptism or even expelled pending the Governing Body's decision.
Jehovah's Witnesses do not intentionally give too much devotion to the Governing Body; they are simply not conscious of just how powerful a role this class of men has attributed to themselves--or at least the implications thereof. If they were conscious of the seriousness of what was going on, and how similar it is to many other groups that are cults, they might reconsider it all. I sure did.
In a way, it's like what Jehovah said to Moses regarding Israel, "I have made you God to them." In a very real way, this is the position the 'faithful slave class' has taken upon itself--and this without any tangible evidence of God's guidance save an increase in membership, which could be attributed to the fact that all members have to spend a certain amount of time recruiting or else get in trouble. Man has more to do with that coercion than God, deep down, for far too many. (How many of us remember how pioneers or publishers spoke of 'getting their time', rather than in terms of saving lives or helping people? God doesn't measure service by the hour, as everlasting life is not a wage that can be earned, but rather, a gift.)
For the fellow who is on here and is or was a Mormon, reading 'Crisis of Conscience' by Raymond Franz is the best way to grasp what the underlying problems are in the organization. Imperfect people are in every group or religion; there's a difference between imperfection and a systemic failure, just as there's a difference between the common cold and cancer.
This thread might be more accurately themed as 'The Watchtower, a cult that [unconsciously] worships the FDS and GB!'.
--sd-7
I think that, if anything, the Faithful and Discrete Slave is merely a figurehead and a fiction. They don't really exist as anything but a smoke-screen to blind the JW faithful to what the Governing Body is really up to. The "annointed" who "partake of the emblems" have no status and no say whatsoever.
The GB are the ones who are really in charge. The GB calls the shots. The GB are "the scribes and the Pharisees" who have "seated themselves in the seat of Moses". The GB claim that they are just mediators but really they have, in effect, replaced Jesus and God with themselves. No-one questions anybody whom they see as gods, now do they?
V665
