And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony (page 6)

tec

I do not believe in eternal hell. Separation from God yes - for the length of time that you are alive in the flesh, yes. But in order to have eternal life beyond the flesh, one needs to eat from the tree of life (Christ)... I don't think he is found in hell. So this hell, this separation, does not keep anyone from death - because they have no access to life.

I don't understanding everything, and I'd be lucky to understand just a couple things. But the above cannot be ignored either. Hell, as portrayed as eternal suffering for the individual person... no, I don't believe in that.

Tammy

startingover

Perry, I specifically asked you where hell is. You are so sure about everything you must have an answer. As lovelylil said, there are many answers to that question, I already knew that. I would like to see yours.

Lovelylil, one of your posts above uses the word "fact" to describe god's discipline. Some of us need to live a reality based life and use facts to that end. What you descibed is not a fact, but a belief. It appears you accept many things and describe them as fact just because they are in the bible, and the bible alone. Many of us here have done in depth research and have come to the conclusion that the bible is just a book containing history and myth, and is, as I think you believe, above all else a book of faith. If so, I think you should quit using the word "fact" when speaking of things that are nothing more than beliefs or opinions which by definition are accepted without proof.

moshe

because of the laws of the U.S

Thank god for our SECULAR LAWS, otherwise we might have have to watch the Salem witchcraft trials on reality TV. Jesus loved a good barbecue in his name.

lovelylil

startingover,

I will rephrase what I am trying to say, "IN FACT, the bible (for those who believe in it) does say God disciplines those who are unrepentent by sending them to hell. Your belief or nonbelief in the Bible is irrelevant, as the FACT is the bible DOES teach this to be true.

If you believe the Bible is just a book of fairy tales, and that is your perogative to do so, then you have nothing to worry about anyway. So why would you care if the Bible teaches people go to hell?

lovelylil

Moshe states:

Jesus loved a good barbecue in his name.

Do you have ANY proof of this?

moshe

Proof?-

Why, the clergy who lit the fire said so- the same clergy who tell you what to do to get saved, how Jesus will make you rich, cure your cancer, save your marriage, get you married, get the barren woman pregnant, find you a job- those same people, who tell you everyday what Jesus will do for you, if only he dwells inside your bosom, or in your brain, or your stomach,etc- just so you have that special feeling to prove Jesus has saved you.

The Mormons use that same special feeling to testify that the Book of the Mormon is true, too.- Works real well for converts who don't require tangible facts to be converted.

Perry

Perry, I specifically asked you where hell is. You are so sure about everything you must have an answer.

starting over, your question has been answered many different ways from different points of view.

Personally,

I believe God literally FIRST. Then, if there is some reason for some less that literal explanation I take a look. During the last several years of walking with God, I have had a number of beliefs proven to be wrong by the Lord where I assumed that what he said was just a figure of speech or a metaphor.

Satan got Eve to not take God literally. Basically he was arguing that it was only her ignorance that would die. But God was literally found true and the Devil was literally a liar. For instance:

I know for a fact that man has a spirit and at the same time is a spirit.

I know for a fact that the spirit can think and experience just as the flesh can. Before God allowed me to experience this separation, I thought phrases like "in the flesh" and "in the spirit" were just figures of speech ..... with my JW background it seemed right, but it was wrong.

I live a life of believing God now. Whatever the bible says, I believe. However, I cannot prove that which I haven't seen. Since I haven't seen hell personally I don't know. But, I believe it is located where God says it is.

Perry

Works real well for converts who don't require tangible facts to be converted

.

But born-again Christians are brimming over with proof Moshe.

Jesus dealt with my :

anger problem

drug problem

womanizing problem

alcohol problem

He has blessed me with:

A calm and milder spirit

A beautiful wife and two beautiful children after age 40

A job in the midst of a recession

Better friends

an awesome prayer life

found new relatives that love the Lord like I do

No illusions here: JUST REAL MEASURABLE, DEMONSTRATABLE FACTS

I'm a businessman. If it don't work, I'm not interested.

startingover

Perry, thank you for answering my question.

Lovelylil,

If you believe the Bible is just a book of fairy tales, and that is your perogative to do so, then you have nothing to worry about anyway. So why would you care if the Bible teaches people go to hell?

Thanks for changing your use of the word "fact". Ignoring the logical fallacy above, I care because my wife believes the bible to be god's word and will give her life up for what she thinks it says. I continue to have a hard time with believers who make statements and claim them as fact when they aren't, they are beliefs.

Perry

Startingover,

I agree sometimes Christians use language that confuse the two.

However things like the existence of God and our eternal destiny are facts because God speaks these facts into the spirit of his children. Other things require faith, some things are known and do not.

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony

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