Basically, GB has a vote on beliefs, policies, etc. They are imperfect men, even some are bad men, not directed by God (beliefs are contrary to Scripture), yet controlling millions of lives (unlike freedom in biblical Christianity under God).
Introducing Myself
by StandFirm 151 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
Mad Dawg
Oh, boy! Stand Fast, I have had JW apologists claim that it can be easily proved from the Bible alone that Jerusalem fell in 607 - then they have refused to do so. I have been requesting this information for more than a year and a half. Please show me, using the Bible alone, that Jerusalem fell in 607. I really want to know.
-
Black Sheep
No, the same idea is expressed in 2001. Also, the Jonadabs were understood to also be JWs well before the 1950s.
ZWT 1 May, 1950
19 Similarly the Jonadabs or “other sheep”, who will be greatly blessed and honored under that glorious kingdom and be recipients of its blessings, are also required to consider this privilege of inestimable value and are required to follow a course of faithfulness similar to that of Jesus and his body members in order to qualify for its blessings. Therefore the ‘selling of all that he had’, this giving up everything in order to obtain that “pearl of great price”, is of vital concern to all the members of the body of Christ and to their faithful Jonadab associates. Our appreciation of this is enhanced by proper understanding. Get understanding!—Matt. 13:45, 46.
The same era consistantly uses the term, Jehovah's witnesses, which describes them as witnesses for Jehovah. not Jehovah's Witnesses, the proper noun used today.
-
Pika_Chu
Hi standfirm. Welcome. I do have a question though. You said are talking points are logically deficient. Could you please state a specific example? Better yet, would you care for a nice debate on a new thread? I would enjoy that, and I promise to be on my best behaviour...
-
yknot
Basically, GB has a vote on beliefs, policies, etc. They are imperfect men, even some are bad men, not directed by God (beliefs are contrary to Scripture), yet controlling millions of lives (unlike freedom in biblical Christianity under God).
The statement can equally apply for every denomination that is hierarchical in nature or has 'conferences'.
-
godrulz
I was part of a denomination in local leadership. The WT is dictating micromanaging decisions and doctrinal changes. This is not parallel to denominational business that does not control and threaten people with DF over manmade, arbitrary rules. We encouraged vs forced obedience to God and did not demand unquestioning loyalty to any man or organization like GB does.
-
AnnOMaly
StandFirm: Also, the Jonadabs were understood to also be JWs well before the 1950s.
On that score, SF is correct.
According to the Proclaimers book (p.83):
The following spring, several issues of The Watchtower, beginning with the April 1, 1935, issue, carried this announcement: "Again The Watchtower reminds its readers that a convention of Jehovah's witnesses and Jonadabs will be held at Washington, D.C., beginning May 30 and ending June 3, 1935." The Jonadabs eagerly awaited the convention.
[Footnote:] At that time the Jonadabs were not considered to be "Jehovah's witnesses." (See The Watchtower, August 15, 1934, page 249.) However, a few years later, The Watchtower of July 1, 1942, stated: "These 'other sheep' [Jonadabs] become witnesses for Him, on the same wise that the faithful men before Christ's death, from John the Baptist all the way back to Abel, were the never-quitting witnesses for Jehovah."
To add - I find it interesting that this counting the 'other sheep' as Jws only came after Rutherford died!
-
yknot
I was part of a denomination in local leadership. The WT is dictating micromanaging decisions and doctrinal changes. This is not parallel to denominational business that does not control and threaten people with DF over manmade, arbitrary rules. We encouraged vs forced obedience to God and did not demand unquestioning loyalty to any man or organization like GB does.
Forced....huh..
Well as far as adult converts after June 1985 goes.....
They are all joined the 'club WTS' on their own free will and this includes compliance with all bylaws and standards of said club......dereliction of club rules allows said club to expell members who fail to meet agreed terms.
or as the Philip Brumley, WTS lawyer more elegantly explained:
represent Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., the parent organization of the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses throughout the United States. By means of your numerous letters and telephone calls to this office, I have been informed that your membership in the organizations of Jehovah's Witnesses was terminated when you were disfellowshiped from the English Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, [xyztown], Massachusetts....
The relationship between a congregation and its member is consensual as to both parties. A congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses is a voluntary association. Both the member and the congregation have a right to determine if they will remain united. The member has the right to disassociate himself or herself from the congregation. The congregation also has the right to separate from a member if it is determined by an ecclesiastical tribunal, which Jehovah's Witnesses call a judicial committee, that a member is not conducting his or her life according to the tenets of the religion.
A. If a member no longer wishes to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses, then the member may disassociate himself or herself from the congregation. The term "disassociation" applies to the action taken by a person who, although being a baptized member of the congregation, repudiates his or her Christian standing as such, rejecting the congregation and stating that he or she no longer wants to be recognized or known as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. A brief announcement would be made to inform the congregation that the person has voluntarily disassociated himself or herself from the congregation.
B. If a member is charged with wrongdoing and wishes to continue to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses, then such one should submit to the hearings of the judicial committee. If charges of wrongdoing are brought to the attention of the body of elders of one's congregation, then they investigate the charges. If it is established that there may be substance to the charges and evidence is produced showing that a serious sin actually may have been committed, the congregation's body of elders will assign a judicial committee, consisting usually of three elders, to handle the matter....
II. APPLICABLE SECULAR LAW
C. Relation Between the Congregations and its members. It is axiomatic that the essence of the relationship of a religious society with its members is held by the courts to be the agreement of the parties, and generally, a profession of faith, adherence to the doctrine of the religious society and submission to its government. 76 C.J.S. Religious Societies 11 (1952). A party having voluntarily assented to becoming a member of a congregation thereby subjects himself or herself to the existing rules and procedures of said congregation and cannot deny their existence. All who unite themselves to such a voluntary religious organization do so with the implied consent to this government and are bound to submit to it....
Since you did not disassociate yourself from the organization, then under the law you gave implied consent to its government, subjecting yourself to the existing rules and procedures and being bound legally to submit to it. The theocratic government of the congregation to which you legally submitted includes specifically the legal agency of Jehovah's Witnesses, known as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., and all their duly appointed representatives, including the elders of the congregation with which you were associated. The rules and procedures which you subjected yourself to include those of the judicial committee arrangement set forth in detail above....
___________________________
Seriously Godrulz...... you screwed up pretty good already with your self-assuming authority. If I was to publically leave the WTS you and the WTS would both denounce my possibilities of receiving salvation, them because of DAing and you because I didn't embrace trinitarism....... it seems to me and several others who have read through your posts you have little else to offer, just another belief system that says it is 'my way or the highway' similar to the WTS.....and that is 'controling' you might do it on the level of the WTS but it is there and that alone is offensive.......pot calling the kettle black!
-
Black Sheep
StandFirm: Also, the Jonadabs were understood to also be JWs well before the 1950s.
On that score, SF is correct.Not regarding the organisation he isn't.
As you can see from the 1950's quote pre-Proclaimer's book, the rank and file were still considered Jonadabs and had to hang off the coat tails of the anointed 'body members' for their salvation. The only thing that changed in 1942 was that they would now also be known as Jehovah's witnesses.
-
Band on the Run
Il don't know you so I don't care. Frankly, Scarlet, I don't give a damn. My major point would be indirectly doctrinal. You are officially welcome here. I am not welcome at jw.org. It sums up a culture. JWs believe outlandish things that are not remotely in the Bible. Most JWs can only quote disparate scrpture the way parrots can speak. The doctrines aren't important to me. My denomination believes outlandish things,too.
JWs are the epitome of a cult. If you can read English, why can't you sit with an English translation of the Bible and read it verse by verse, consecutively. It is not difficult. No commentary is needed. When I first did this in college (naughty me), I was shocked by the lies Witnesses printed--objective lies where the text says one thing and the Bible says the opposite. Many items JWs believe I still believe. The crazy stuff is crazy.
The Holy Trinity created us with a mind to use. Jesus was exalted even in JW parlance. The WTBTS should not be allowed to call itself Christian for denying the Trinity, IMO. Anyway, Jesus was very capable of stating expressly, "This weird group in PA will incorporate, crosses and the occult will predominate, it will, in time, be known as WTBTS and Jehovah's Witnesses. In 18--, it will be..........In 1914, it will..............In 1932, it will......Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were fully capable of reporting this. If the JWs kept this info a secret, I can see Jesus choosing to not reveal it, the way the CIA does not release its activities. Since you knock on doors proclaiming this organization, it is not a secret. Why would Jesus forget to expressly mention your address, phone number and web address and email address.
In fact, why doesn't Jesus teach about cell phones and the United Federation of Planets? He seems limited in terms of technology he had to know about.
The most important thing to me is not the Bible Study, the arrogance and the ignorance. Love one another as I have loved you. JWs are so lacking in this category. It is the gut level test of Christianity to me. Does the WBTS feed the hungry, clothe the poor and provide housing? These are Jesus' express commandments. Nowhere in the Gosepls is there a doctrinal test of exclusion or 6 zillion rules on pressing matters such as beards, colored shirts, etc. Jesus left one crucial commandment. Cults have no love.
May we have your name so that we can submit letters of recommendation to your elders and to Bethel. The GB will be so pleased. We promise to behave.
So what are your logical conclusions, in your own words.
Curiosity killed the cat. This site is certainly curious. Can't you feel the vacuum action sucking you into our vile, filthy culture?